Get Shit Done! Rallying Cry for Credit Unions at the Underground Collision with Money 20/20

Sue Mitchell, CEO of Mitchell, Stankovic & Associates and founder of the Underground, sat down with The Credit Union Connection Host and Co-founder Sarah Snell Cooke to talk about the biggest issues facing credit unions, building Underground's thought leadership bench strength, and then how the industry will Get Shit Done!

Key topics of the Underground will be collaborating, creating efficiencies and driving growth to a goal of 1 billion members around the world! Not only will the Money 20/20 President Tracy Davies be at the Underground, but Money 20/20 also invited some credit union leaders, including Sue, to serve on a panel on the main stage at Money 20/20 about this goal. Fintechs are certainly a large part of being able to reach that goal.

Additionally, the Underground will be dropping its brand new CUSS - Credit Union Shared Servies - white paper. The research was in collaboration with AWS and 30 other credit union leaders. The group plans to provide an answer for revolutionizing credit unions' technology and leveraging one of credit unions' biggest assets: COLLABORATION!

Read the Transcript

Disclaimer: Transcript is autogenerated.

Sarah Cooke  00:00

Well, thank you very much. I don't know about that, but I appreciate it.  So, tell us a little bit about yourself and Mitchell Stankovic and Associates and how the underground came about. Okay,

Sue Mitchell  00:28

Mitchell, CEO, Mitchell Stankovic and Associates, been working in the industry for a long time now, and during that time, we've really worked with credit unions on strategic initiatives looking to the future disruption, trying to figure out really how we remain relevant, because I believe so much in the cooperative movement and the importance of financial access for all. So that is our from a company standpoint, we do a lot of board governance, a lot of strategic planning, education, really working with the movement in the direction that needs to happen. So from that perspective, as part of what we saw happening is, if you will, a reduction of the amount of collaboration. We are collaborating, but not to where it has the impact that was so critical to credit unions with, if you will, limited resources and size, and so the underground started working with Brandy stankvic In looking at our client conferences And the transition from just being with a small group, if you will, but bringing the larger group of credit union people and credit union support people together and saying, what do we need to be talking about? And then our intention is to bring those people together and talk it through and then put it is an action, and you've seen some of the work that we've done there. So it's critical to get shit done. You know, GSD, that's right, right? So I think execution is an OP, is an opportunity for all of the credit union space is to figure out how to take that next step.

Sarah Cooke  02:19

100% agree. it's great to see more collaboration, or people working on getting more collaboration going within the credit union market, because it is certainly a force multiplier if we actually take advantage of it. So yeah, so what are some of the hot topics that the underground is thought leaders are going to be tackling? I know you guys always have top notch speakers there. I've been to several of the undergrounds. So who's talking about what?

Sue Mitchell  02:47

I think you understate the role you've been. You've been a partner with us for many years, and I appreciate how you look at industry issues and certainly bring a perspective. So thank you for being part of this with us. I think that when we look at today, you're right. There's more collaboration, there's also more talking. And what I mean by that is we know we have some problems that are real, and we have to look at it. And so the other thing about the underground is we try to collide with conferences that will bring people together on different topics. So this year we've actually done, you know, two, if you will, you know, Premier showcase. Three. Those type of collisions, where we we we bring everybody together the but we've also now had underground panels and other with our partner, client partners, to talk about those subjects. And so the reason I mentioned that is that the world is evolving, and so we have an opportunity right now. Everybody's busy. It's crazy busy. We were talking about that before we got started, and so we have to make sure that we're choosing topics that are relevant and important. So this year, we're colliding with money 2020, which is one of the largest FinTech showcases in the world, and it happens in Las Vegas starting this weekend. So Saturday is the underground, and then we'll move right into Monday, 2020, and the topics that we're going to focus on is leadership in today's world. When we look at the transition happening in the credit union space, we know that some of our you know, our traditional credit union folks are retiring, and so we have this new energy coming into the industry. So we want to talk about what that looks like, and how will that affect our collaboration going forward. And then we're going to talk about making an impact, because I'm a strong believer. Or that the reason we're relevant is because of our impact. We can do financial services, and we can transact on a telephone, and we can use so many different methods. What it comes down to is credit unions need to make an impact. So that doesn't mean just reaching, you know, the next generation, which is so critical, but it's also sustaining the loyal membership, and if you will, some of those founders and their children and multi generation. So we're going to talk about making an impact, and in that realm we'll get to in a minute. But we're looking at the World Council and the challenge for a billion members worldwide. So we want to focus there, then we're going to look at Do or die. And, you know, I think it's that real, though. Sarah, absolutely, you know, I think we've got, somebody was telling me over 50 applications this month with mergers, and we can verify those numbers, but it's that kind of thing happening, and we're seeing the Great Divide, much like we're seeing in the world today, where we have the big getting bigger, and we have the smaller credit unions, who, in a lot of cases, are very healthy. They serve a community, they serve a financial niche, but they have limited resources, and with technology happening the way it is, we believe that that great divide is going to get bigger and there'll be more vulnerability, because how can we invest in technology on our own? And the system itself is not supporting that as much, because there's been such consolidation there, and so it takes courage. So that's one of our topics. It's like, we gotta stand up, and we've gotta have, you know, take the courage, and then we're going to be taking a look at what that means. And you're aware that one of the topics that we tackled, and we continue to tackle, is legacy systems and legacy, if you will, the underbelly of the credit union movement. We still have technology that that's based upon core technology that's older, tech stacks that are older. And I'm not going to take anything away from the, you know, the majority of the market out there, but what I am going to do is challenge us to say, do we need to unwind a little bit our credit union system has, has been wonderful, but it's also restrictive, and we to understand that we need partners that are, if you will, outside of the inner circle. Mm, so that'll be a main topic. And then, as you know, we're rolling out our, our credit union shared services CUSS white paper,

Sarah Cooke  07:46

damn it So yeah, I mean, all these topics are great, you know, I've, I've always, for a long time, felt the biggest threats to credit unions have been brand awareness, the getting developing the leaders to have the breadth and depth of knowledge to become the next credit union CEOs and other top positions, so that, you know, we can continue. A lot of mergers happen because they can't find a replacement CEO, and they haven't done the succession planning. I was so disappointed that NCUA had to demand credit unions do succession planning. And then, you know, the third part is the modern technology, the fintechs that can help keep them relevant. That's this is like, right on target with what we're doing, the credit union connection as well, and so, so those are my three top threats. Did you have any to add? Or, or you can disagree with me. I'll let you. 

Sue Mitchell  08:43

You know, I would, if I did, but I don't, there we go. We can summarize that one I would have for me. It's four things. And so I want to, you know, it's a whole concept that cus is not just a four letter word, right? It's about the idea of four topics. And so we're looking at shared services from the standpoint of, if you will, shared back office, you know, holding company kind of concept. It's very difficult out there to have all of the things that are required from a regulatory standpoint and to stay current on that. So we're looking at shared services from an administrative back office standpoint. Then we're looking at exactly what you said. You know, we're, we're looking at it from a fractional executive perspective that we don't necessarily need to have a CEO of, you know, a small ten million type credit union branches are, if you will, bigger than that in organizations. And this is where I will. I don't know if I disagree, but I'll add on to what you said about succession planning. I think succession planning is when we can develop people to take over, right and bench. Right? In some of these small credit unions cases, you've got only two or three employees, and what you're doing is you're developing somebody that will not be paid well, right? The industry won't, won't be paid well. They have a heck of a lot of stuff they have to do, and it's difficult to replace that. So what's happening is, as you know, they're merging, but I look at it from the standpoint that they really are saying, we want to take care of our members, right? So we got to figure that one out. And so I'll talk about it in a minute. But I think fractional leadership, having CEOs run multiple credit unions, having us think differently about the brand. And then the third thing is the modern technology and legacy tech stacks, peeling those back and using APIs and being able to choose what you want with the solution without having to be charged so much. One of the examples that we're going to give with the white paper that we're rolling out this weekend is that we had small credit union, 30 million merging into 100 plus million, and the service provider, from a technology standpoint, charged them over a million dollars to do that transition, that that, you know, we've had conversations about predatory, I mean, practices, and so we don't want to be that harsh. But the reality is that that we have some, you know, some limitations in our ability to make the changes we'd like that aren't just the fact that somebody's not going to make the change. So looking at it from, if you will, unwinding it and allowing people to have choices, so the technology. And then the fourth thing is kind of me challenge in this industry. And as you know, I was part of Global Women's Leadership Network, and I've always advocated for the, you know, the quality of access, whether it's cu pride or it's global women's or just equal access. And part of what I'm unfortunately seeing, and I've seen for the last 1015, years, is we, we have an industry that have a significant number of women running credit unions, but they're also not making anything, and it's not just the women, but they've given up, if you will, income, they've given up retirement, they've given up things that for the betterment of the credit union, which is, it's admirable, it's what makes it special, but it also doesn't pay the bills at a certain point. So we're going to advocate that we look at some type of a retirement fund from an industry perspective, where, as you know, people are vilified right now because they're merging, and then they're getting, you know, some type of an offer to stay on board, or some kind of a quote, payout. Well, one example that I give is I worked with a $20 million credit union that the CEO had been there 40 years, and the board had approved to serve, but they never funded it because of economic downturns. So when they merged, I went in and advocated for the the merging credit union to pay out that SERP, well, people, oh my gosh, you know, we're paying somebody to merge. No, you're not. You're taking care of our legacy leaders. So I think that's a balance of a conversation that I want to bring to the forefront, and I think that we can all work on that collectively to try to solve some of that.

Sarah Cooke  13:48

Yeah, I love the idea of that cooperative retirement fund. Very cool, very cool. So, you know, also, obviously, Fintech is, as you mentioned, I mentioned, is a big deal, and you're going to be right next door to money, 2020 and you have the president of money, 2020 on your agenda. So how did that come about?

Sue Mitchell  14:13

Well, I think you were at our first, if you will, underground with with money, 2020 and and you know, the credit unions don't necessarily look at that as an opportunity for them. So we've been pushing to get more credit unions here, talking to the fintechs, making our voice heard. And so in that process, I came to the attention of the CEO, Tracy Davies, and she reached out to me via LinkedIn and said, Let's chat. So I, of course, I knew that there was something about, you know, legal, or I, you know, did something there. But actually she reached out because of being interested in what this was, right the underground. So we had a great conversation, and that was last year. Her and and we've kind of talked about, what can we do with the marketing agreement? So we started one fairly late in the year, and then she attended the underground last year and just walked around and got to know what we were doing. And this year, we've expanded that marketing agreement where it actually gave credit unions an opportunity to save money for them to be able to have a credit union curated content. And so part of it was a webinar that we just did, I think, earlier this week, where we talked about how credit unions can take advantage of, you know, the the show. And then I said, you know, we talked about having a speaker from the new 2020, come and actually participate in the underground. And she raised her hand, and so I'm excited. I'm going to have a one on one with her and and I think they're phenomenal, and they want credit unions messaging to be part of it.

Sarah Cooke  16:04

I think it's really great that credit unions are getting that level of recognition from those FinTech partners, and hopefully they'll start, you know, trying to serve the credit unions like get themselves known so that credit unions can remain relevant. So the you're taking the stage you mentioned, or go You didn't mention, you're taking the stage at money 2020 with this goal of credit unions reaching a billion members worldwide. And so I guess this is probably part of that agreement that you made, but it's so great for cranes to have that kind of attention, like I said, front and center stage, right? Tell us about what you guys are going to talk about on that panel.

Sue Mitchell 16:52

Yeah, so it's interesting. So you know, she's actually coming to the Underground and talk about it, and then we are part of the show will be on stage Tuesday. And the concept that we talked about, I presented the idea of worldwide foundation and World Council this year at their annual meeting, and I'm on the board, but Alyssa, the CEO, came out with, you know, let's grow right? And we know that we touch a billion lives right now, they just may not be members. So the question became, if we take generational issues, like, if you will, Africa. We know in Africa, the average age is 1718, years old. I mean, we really have an opportunity here, if we can partner with fintechs, if we can partner with new technology. So we took the idea of, let's let's really make this a challenge. And also, like you said, get the attention of fintechs. We know that we're investing in fintechs through true state venture group, through Curql fund, but we also have to have credit unions actually push it out to members. So we've got this little dichotomy going on. And so the panel is made up of the CEO of Navy Federal, Dietrich Coleman, and Dietrich, in our prep discussion, talked about the fact that Navy Federal is growing about a million members a year. So you know, if we take that out of our growth numbers, we're going to, you know, look at the growth. So I think that he brings a perspective that will be unique and and frankly, the fintechs will want to hear because of the size. Then we have Bill Cheney. And you know, when you think of schools first, and their commitment to the industry, to the commitment of education and the Field of Membership, that'll be great. Bill's going to, you know, take us down that path. And then Brian cos from true stage, and we wanted to show that support system of what credit unions have. And as we know, true stage is a long term partner and works with all the credit unions. And then we have Jennifer Oliver, and Jennifer's credit union has just gone through a rebrand, one of your passion and they're actually now called RISE credit union, and they're doing everything they can, through partnerships and through being able to serve a diversity of people to really rise and get more focus on what the credit union purpose is. And so we're excited. And you know, all of the the panelists have about 30 minutes, and they've given us 45 minutes, so we're gonna rock and roll. And I get you the moderator and stir it up a little bit.

Sarah Cooke  19:52

You certainly will stir it up, I am sure. And so tell us more about the big news, about. Us what is coming out at the event,

Sue Mitchell  20:03

we are in March, we had an underground and we talked about what's the most critical issue, and we believe it truly is saving the small credit unions. And so we've had a working group of over 30 folks working with us over the last five months, talking about those four steps that, you know, legs of the stool, if you will, of the CUSP model. So we are presenting a white paper that will release on Saturday that goes through the different components and why we're looking to do this. We've got a schematic in terms of exactly how we're structuring it, what the portal will look like, and who the partners are going to be. And then we're going into proof of concept, after money 2020 so that in at G at our DC event coming up and 2025, we can actually demonstrate to people that it's working, and here's what's happening, and show the results. Awesome,

Sarah Cooke  21:09

awesome. That is such. I mean, I just don't understand how that hasn't happened already, you know? I mean, with the cooperation, as you mentioned, it's kind of gone downhill a bit. But you know that it means so much for credit unions to be cooperative, because they need help. They need they can't afford to do everything on their own.

Sue Mitchell  21:29

And I think it was just waiting. I mean, this is my biggest thing, and I've talked to, you know, a ton of people since we started this initiative. And if I hurt once, I've heard it literally 1000 times. We tried that it didn't work. Okay? I look at it from the standpoint as that was then. This is now. I also think that you've got to surround it with other components, right? And the fear of, How many times have you and I heard that I'm going to retire before I'll convert, right? Digital transformation takes time and all that stuff, we're out of time, I mean. And so it's really going to be two fold. It's us creating the solution that everybody can participate in. But the second part of it is, is people have to participate in it, right? Okay, small credit unions, and we call them boutique credit unions, as you know, are focused and they they serve such a vital part of our grassroots of what a credit union is, and they're busy, and it's hard for them to get away from the office, but we've gotta bring scale. Mm, okay, we have, you know, has to be a win win. Our partners have to to be able to understand consumptive pricing and be able to work together. And then our our credit unions have to make the time. And so I look at it as we're going to have an opportunity here. The window, the door has opened for us to be working with some fairly major partners, including, you know, AWS, Amazon Web Services. It's bringing some of these partners together, but we gotta step in, you know, we gotta take advantage of this opportunity. So I think that you're right. I think people want to collaborate, and I think people want to cooperate. I think our big credit unions want to solve this. I think our our trade associations want to solve it. It's just, it's difficult. So why not the underground?

Sarah Cooke  23:32

There you go. Yeah. Because, I mean, how are you going to handle like credit unions, especially with cores are locked in these contracts. You know, how? How are you going to handle, like, getting them out, or, I don't know, like, whatever the the solution is there. Is that something you guys are contemplating? I assume, 

Sue Mitchell 23:51

yeah. I mean, not only contemplating it, but we're going to Okay. How can I help? Right? You know, large credit unions. One of the things that we've done over the years is we've done a lot of research, we've done a lot of studies, we've identified what the problems are. Large credit unions have adopted other credit unions, they work with, and they share resources. So we have a lot of folks that want to help. I think what we have to do is connect that together, and this model will not only if you will give an option, but it puts a little pressure on our partners that have a monopoly, and it's kind of in space to maybe open up. So the solution isn't necessarily just to convert it's really to say, hey, we have options, and those options have scale. And when you look at what about $80 billion in credit unions, you know, 3000 credit unions that aren't necessarily being served, and we only have a little less than 5000 credit unions, so we can't all just market to the billion dollar credit unions. So I think we'll see you. We'll see partners helping, and I think they'll be motivated, and I think we'll see credit unions. And so that's what we've done. We've opened those conversations. So some of our working group, just like the retirement fund, is going to need to be a transformation fund, and organizations like AWS have funds available to help facilitate things. So that's, you know, all of it has to really come together in a way that makes it work. But we can't do it. It's not Sue Mitchell. It's not Mitchell Stankovic. It's not any individual. It's literally going to need to be the industry. Yeah, 

Sarah Cooke  25:39

yeah. Save ourselves. So I always allow my guests to have the final thought. What have you got to say for parting words?

Sue Mitchell  25:50

I think that we have an incredible energy and an incredible love and passion around the credit union movement, I'd like to see us channel that and get shit done and not be threatened by somebody coming up with something new or not, nay, saying it instead, let's roll up our slaves. Mm, hmm, alright, let's come together, and let's really try to see what we can do here in this next year, and hopefully people will run with it just like they have with some of our other initiatives. Yeah.

Sarah Cooke  26:32

Well, thank you so much. Sue. I appreciate all great ideas, and of course, action!

Sue Mitchell 26:38

And congratulations on The Credit Union Connection. I wanted to start with that, but you know, very impressed, and we appreciate seeing stories. So thank you. Bye.