Watch the video and then come to the Underground in Vegas to listen to her and many more credit union leaders!
“Come live in a small town and you’ll see what happens when there’s no credit union.” With that simple but striking statement, Shirley Senn set the tone for her conversation with Sarah Snell Cooke on The Credit Union Connection. It’s the kind of remark that makes you stop and think, not just about credit unions, but about the communities that quietly rely on them every single day.
Shirley’s career has taken her from small barber shop board meetings to national fintech stages, and in this interview, she pulls no punches. She talks about the reality of mergers, the resilience of small credit unions and the urgent need to keep their voices at the table. But she also brings an infectious energy, reminding us that fighting for these institutions isn’t about nostalgia; it’s about survival for the communities they serve.
Headed to the Underground? Your registration is waiting for you. (And don’t forget to head over to Money 2020 when you’re in Vegas, too.) Click to learn more: https://mitchellstankovic.com/
What’s most intriguing is how Shirley ties it all together: the big industry events like Money20/20, the grassroots efforts of local leaders, and the not-so-secret Underground where uncomfortable truths get aired out. Listening to her, you start to realize this isn’t just another policy debate; it’s a fight for relevance, fairness and even dignity for people who cannot simply walk into a big bank.
There are moments in this conversation that may surprise you, especially her take on fintech partnerships and why small credit unions should never be underestimated. And when she talks about what keeps her fighting after three decades in the movement, you will feel it.
This is not a video you can play in the background while you do other stuff. It is one you will want to hear directly from Shirley herself.
NOTE: The following transcript is automated with AI. No, it didn’t replace someone’s job.
Sarah Cooke
Hello and welcome everybody. My name is Sarah Snell Cooke. I am your host here at The Credit Union Connection I have with me today, Shirley Senn, welcome. Thank you. And Shirley is not only the Founder and Partner of Purple Bridges, she is also the Chief Community Development and Impact Officer at Fireman’s New Orleans, excuse me, Fireman’s Federal Credit Union in Louisiana. Obviously welcome. You want to give a little more on yourself and what all you’re into?
Shirley Senn
Sure, yeah. I mean, some days I forget what day it is. You know, I’ve been very, very fortunate in the credit union movement for the last 33 years to really build up into what I’m doing right now. And you know, I spent 20 I had to figure 22 years we’re working in the corporate credit union space. But that’s where I really developed my love for small and mid sized credit unions just I started my career in Tennessee back when 1992 I think, when there were over 300 credit unions in Tennessee. And, you know, we’re around 100 120 today, and but most of those were small, you know, one and a half, 2 million. I can still remember going to what was called haircutters, Federal Credit Union, and my first meeting with them was literally at the barber shop and turning all the barber chairs to the front with a sheet on the wall to talk and with my transparency machine, and talking to them about ALM and but what it what it made me realize is how important small credit unions are to these communities, and so as I continue My career over the next two decades in the corporate credit union space, I really started to kind of shift to working with credit unions that needed filled up membership changes, which obviously brought about business development, product development, strategies and things and really becoming more versed in the community needs and challenges. And who would have known that in 2014 right after I got my de, I didn’t really know what community development was at that point, so I typed in community development and credit union and up pops cu strategic planning, and I thought, that’s who I’m going to go work for. So, you know, I found Jamie Strayer, and a year later, I started working with CU strategic planning, which, you know, shifted a little bit of my focus to working with community development, financial institution, credit union, CDFIs, and for the next 10 years, it really, really showed me how important our community institutions are in those underserved communities, or even in urban areas where we have under resourced communities and populations and but the obviously, the problem that we’ve all seen over the last 30 some years is we’re now down to around 4500 credit unions, and when I started, there were almost 13,000 there were almost 13,000 and so it’s even more important today that we do two things, that we continue to support an environment where we can start more credit unions. Then we’re merging, and right now, we’re merging around 150 a year, and we’re getting an average of four started a year. So you don’t have to be good in math to understand what that looks like. And so that’s really led me to refocusing what I wanted to do, which was figuring out a way to save small credit unions or growing credit unions and starting new ones and but also it made me realize, as we’re doing the research, the vulnerable populations that are so critically being served by some of these small credit unions. And so that pivoted a little bit of my nonprofit interest into helping start purple bridges, which houses the phi safe initiative, which is bringing domestic violence survivors and human trafficking survivors into the financial inclusion and mainstream, working together with credit unions and technology and the resource centers in their communities to help them escape financial abuse and get them back on their feet. And so, you know, it’s, it’s these things are parallel together very well. And then New Orleans fireman’s was a way for me to engage in working with the CDFI, with a small credit union, and with a team there that is so entrenched in community impact that I could. Have asked for a better trifecta.
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, that credit union is amazing talking. She’s just a pistol,
Shirley Senn
yes, but a good one.
Sarah Cooke
So much energy. So, yeah, cool. That’s such a cool kind of career path to take, not I mean corporates and then CDFIs, and then in a CDFI and starting, it’s obviously a passion for service that you have, yeah, and so as part of that, I’m going to lead us into the underground. Think of it. Underground is start is happening on October 25 and it’s a group that gives a lot back to credit unions. I mean, they founded cu pride. Now they’ve shared services. They’re like actually implementing from a white paper they did last year, and it’s leading up to money 2020 which is such an important credit conference for credit unions to go to as well. So just what, what do you see? Is the significance of that, the tie in with money, 2020 which now has a credit union track.
Shirley Senn
I know, I think that’s awesome. I was thinking about this earlier, because the really, the last 12 months in particular, I’ve realized how important not just technology, but financial technology, fintechs are to the credit union space and the issue, though, is that a little small to mid sized credit unions get overwhelmed already with what they’re doing, that sometimes it’s more difficult to look at one more thing they Have to add to keep that member experience relevant. And so I really started to just talk about being at all the conferences. It wasn’t to, you know, to get free dinners or drinks or to, you know, it was really to network and to understand and to learn and then be an advocate for the small to mid sized credit unions that, as these fintechs are developing and looking for their place in this space, that to really engage in those conversations to say, Okay, why you’re developing this? We need to also run this tracked parallel to what you’re doing, so that you understand what the small to mid sized credit unions are and do, and how important they are to our movement. And so when you think about that, we now have to start engaging in more than just going to, you know, council conferences every year or our annual league meetings. We need to start engaging outside of just being 100% credit union centric, and start getting into these other areas. And so when you think about like FinTech meetup or innovate fall just came on, each of these now has credit union trucks in them, and they’re trying to engage in getting more credit unions. But money 2020, is kind of like the granddaddy of them all. And I mean, where, you know, some conferences may have 5000 or 2000 this one gets, you know, over 10,000 and you know, the underground, and Susan Mitchell and her group have really been working actively to get a presence of the credit unions in that space, and we have it now. I mean, in the underground running conjunctively with the money 2020 I think is really significant, because it’s important that fintechs, that our community banking partners, understand where we are in this space, how we can collaborate. And you know, while I know taxation is and always will be an issue to some degree, you know, there’s also part of this stage that we need to be sharing it with our banking partners in especially communities that are underserved, or in banking deserts trying to come in and make a presence, and a lot of that’s going to be dependent on keeping up with technology. So, you know, having that, having that space at the table, is really important, and so it’s really encouraging to see that, you know, we’re not just being brought to the table. We’re actually part of the feast to speak. And it’s, it’s really exciting.
Sarah Cooke
And so when I go there, am I going to have somebody nibbling on my leg?
Shirley Senn
Part of the hope not.
Sarah Cooke
So you’re going to be, you’re going to be on one of the panels at the underground. And so, can you talk a little bit about your panel and maybe some of the others that you look forward to hearing from?
Shirley Senn
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the primary point of, I think this particular underground as a continuation. Of what we saw in the underground, in March with GAC, and then even last year, when Mitchell Stankovic was putting the seed for CUSP. And I think people that know me know that I try not to cuss, but in this case, cussing is a good thing for their shared services. And, you know. So the underground this point, I think, is, is going to be transformational. And when we think about all the different aspects of what it brings, when the significance of the other ground, at least, to me, is where we really have those tough, authentic conversations in the credit union movement, and it’s a safe space where we, you know, where we engage in really getting what the raw needs are of the intentionality that’s needed in making change. And so, you know, when we think about the things that are needed, we need people that are willing to stand up and be authentic about what really is happening. And to be honest, you know, the voices of the small credit unions up to this point, up until maybe even the last couple of years, has been suppressed in the credit union movement to a point and it, you know, it, I don’t think it’s been intentional. But when you think about the fact that, you know, really small credit unions, your manager is also your teller is also your loan officer is also the one cleaning the bathrooms, and the last thing they have time for is to spend a week at a conference, let alone the cost. And so, you know, we’re I think the movement with the partners is trying to create opportunities for that to happen, but they also need to have somebody that’s advocating for them to bring their voices up to the top. And so when I think about some of the things that we can engage in, especially in this area, it is going to be talking about topics about the small to mid size credit unions and how we need to be better. How are our larger credit unions? There are lots of them out there that help small credit unions get started or help them grow, but we need more and since we’re going to have those small, mid and large credit unions at the underground, this is a great opportunity for us to really bring that out, to bring out the importance of succession planning. And this isn’t just to fulfill a requirement from NCUA. We need to think about, if we want to keep our small credit unions, we have to have we have to help them have plans in place for those managers have been there, sometimes 60 years. I’m working with a little small credit union right now that their CEO retired last year, and she’s in her early 80s, and they, you know, and thinking about what’s next for them. And so part of having those in conferences or conversations to say, you know, okay, CEOs, what can you do to level up to help the next emerging professionals coming in, and what are the resources that you and your board need to think about in order to keep the relevancy of this small credit union? Also, on the other end, I’m not anti merger. What I am is anti merger for the wrong reasons, and we should try to keep these small credit unions in their communities, because in a lot of times when it’s the small credit unions and community banks also that are filling the needs within what could become a banking desert. And you know, we’ve got 12, I think it’s the FDIC survey. There’s about 12 and a half million people right now that are in bank that live in banking deserts, true banking deserts. And so the only alternative is payday lenders, whether they’re, you know, brick and mortar or online, and so, you know, let’s step up and let’s be real and authentic. And I think this underground is is really bringing a lot, bringing to light the value and the relevancy of those small credit unions, and really coming together using the six principle cooperation among cooperatives to have those resources that can create opportunities for fractional executives, whereas a credit union may not be able to afford a full time compliance person or engaging in having a core and fintechs and other technology that are willing to engage in this circle to reduce costs, you know, to be able to say, hey, small credit union CEO, you’re just as valuable as 100 times your size, and you deserve retirement benefits. You deserve to have. Retirement package, because a lot of these small credit union CEOs, you know, don’t have anything. They’re actually probably giving up or paying into the credit union to ensure that it survives. So there’s just a lot of things that we need to think about that are just as important for small credit unions as they all are mid to large and so I think those are the kinds of conversations that really are going to come to light here. And again, we had a had good discussions at last year’s underground about, you know, these are having the courage to step up and say something, and I think that we’re just going to have an extension of those conversations last year, but now we can see, after 12 months that we have the tools and they’re ready to be presented. And, you know, let’s go, let’s get together and start, you know, moving forward with action, rather than just sitting around and talking about things.
Sarah Cooke
Yes, yes. And so many small credit unions, I love that you pointed out like deserve to be saved like they have a certain level of, you know, financial stability, as well as the will and interest to serve their members, but sometimes they need that little hand up for sure, and saving by using a fractional CTO or by, you know, sharing negotiating power with other credit unions to get prices down can be tremendous for them.
Shirley Senn
Yeah, yeah. And I’m gonna, you know, I’ve got a shout out for a little small credit union in Texas, 17 million and they’re working with two fintechs right now. There’s Starlight is working with this credit union, along with Virtus AI and $17 million credit union. So a FinTech can’t tell me they can’t work with small credit unions when we’ve got two fintechs. One, Starlight works to bring a market of $140 billion a year of social benefits that are left on the table. And you know, that’s a great way that, when there’s wraparound services provided by the credit union and financial coaching, to use these funds to help people get out of poverty and get back on their feet, and then, you know, a lot of times the data that sits at a small credit union, it’s so rich. But again, when a small credit union, even a $17 million credit union, when you wearing multiple hats, you don’t have time to uncover that. And so Virtus AI is an opportunity for, you know, credit unions that size to have the capacity of, you know, tools that may be warranted for a 500 million or a billion dollar credit union coming down and letting them see what they can unlock and then customize what they’re doing for their members. Their members deserve that just as much as any other credit union does. So, you know, it’s just how you look through the lens of what the needs are, and just putting guardrails around you don’t have to reinvent everything. It’s just a matter of, how do you adapt?
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, yeah. And that’s so great to hear, because there are so many businesses partners to credit unions or vendors that I hear in my consulting business all the time, like, they come and they’re like, Oh, we only want to serve the billion plus dollar credit unions. It’s like, good luck with that. You got a one in 400 you know? Like, there’s you got competitors who only want them to so, yeah. I mean, it’s much, you know, working with multiple ones can be difficult, but by collaborating, those cranes, collaborating and working together make it much easier to be able to serve the for the vendors, to be willing to serve, yes, smaller business partners
Shirley Senn
too, you know. And we’ve been talking about this is kind of where, again, where the underground really comes is kind of a nucleus or a core for, you know, the things that need to feed into the small credit union ecosystem. And, you know, we’ve been a little bit, you know, fragmented in terms of, we’ve got a lot of opportunities. We have a lot of people that are doing good things, but you know what? What is the power of bringing, again, all of that together and centralizing it so that our small credit unions know where things are that they can tap into? You know? Just makes me wonder how many more credit unions can thrive and survive and thrive when they know the resources are out there and we can continue to refer them to a centralized whether it’s on the internet or through an associate, whatever it may be, you know, knowing that they can go to that centralized spot for assistance and know. That it’s consistent,
Sarah Cooke
right? And it’s so interesting, as I’ve gone through some of these interviews, what’s interesting is, not only is it credit union purists, but also the credit union realists. Time Like, there is a reality, there is a lot of small credit unions you know, that are getting merged away, and they understand that, and at the same time, they’re like, this, this is possible. Others are like, yeah, they’re done with just, you know, push them aside. What’s your what’s your argument for those who would say that small credit unions aren’t
Shirley Senn
worth saving, I would say, Come live in a small town and you’ll see what happens when there’s no credit union? I live in one of those towns. I live in Sparta, Tennessee, and we have a couple of community banks. We have one National Bank, US Bank, but they’re not really there to serve low income and yet, you know, every time a fast food restaurant closes or moves out of this town. Guess what comes in payday lenders, you know, buy here, pay here, and in the nearest credit union to us is 20 miles away. But that doesn’t help someone who doesn’t have a car, right? And, I mean, we’ve got people that walk to work or are constantly, you know, you can, you can see on Facebook groups, you know, I need a ride to work this morning. Can I pay you $5 to take me? Those are the kind of people that need credit unions. And so when someone is not willing to take the time to loan someone $100 $500 $1,000 you know, the only other option is payday lenders. So when, when someone says, Why do we need small credit unions, when you think about what has been the backbone of the growth of this country, it’s been small business. It’s been the small businesses and the mom and pop shops in those rural and small communities, it’s been in the, you know, the urban areas that nobody else wants to serve, and most of the time it is those small credit unions that are taking that on. And so if you think about it, every credit union started small, you know, some have just obviously grown, you know, faster than others. But at the end of the day, you know, some have chosen to stay small because they know that their market is doing those payday alternative loans. Is doing those buy here, pay here, alternative loans that you know maybe are 10,000 and below. And you keep doing those kinds of loans, you’re not going to be growing, you know, 10, $20 million a year. Potentially, you may be growing half a million a year. So, you know, and it’s so important that we continue to have a balance in this country, when you think about how, you know, the population just has migrated in general, you know, we, we’ve got, you know, very centralized and very distinct urban areas, LA, Seattle, you know, Houston, Chicago. I mean, you can kind of see them, but the rest of the country is very rural or small town. And, you know, it’s, again, it’s an economies of scale. You do not see a lot of large banks coming into, you know, small town USA and when you think about why, why did Louise herring, you know, help start 500 credit unions, it wasn’t because she wanted her name in the paper. She saw that there was a need. There was a group that, you know, needed services that weren’t being served anywhere else. And you know, the small credit unions, I think, really, are the voice of the historically disadvantaged, and not just in our movement, but in the US in general. And so, you know, when we’ve got people that are affiliating themselves with the underground again, and having those real, authentic, very uncomfortable sometimes conversations. You know, we have to be more comfortable about being uncomfortable and being able to work through that, because that’s how change happens. Change doesn’t happen if we’re comfortable all the time. So I will always be an advocate for helping. And I think the thing though, is small credit unions, we can only help those that want to be helped. There are some that just don’t want to be helped. And you know, so we have to be smart about where we put our resources to.
Sarah Cooke
Mm, hmm, exactly. So I think you kind of brought it all back to the underground there. So we’ve talked about a lot what would be the selling point? What should be the selling point that would get a credit union executive, some credit union leaders, to attend the underground and hear all this.
Shirley Senn
You know, I would say that every one of the undergrounds I’ve been to, there’s always surprises that come out of it. And, you know, the networking. And I know we always say, oh, go to this to network. Go to this to network. But if you want to really get down to the nitty gritty of the people that are really to put, you know, the their actions behind their words. These are people that will do that, that are not afraid to speak up. And personally, if I was a small credit union CEO, I want somebody that’s willing to just, not just stand in my corner, but defend it and help us, you know, when we have those challenges. And so I think, you know, this is the place where you can really feel like the people you’re connecting with, at least on an initial basis, can help you figure out where those other resources are going to come from. So it is something that is definitely worthwhile. I get excited about it when I when I first went to my first underground I was like, what is it? You know, what? What are they doing there? Is it like a secret club?
Sarah Cooke
And, you know, it is kind of not so secret anymore though.
Shirley Senn
No, but, you know, when I kind of relate it to the to the de program, the credit union development educator program, is that, you know, there’s a couple of, I mean, I think there’s over 3000 DS, but there’s hundreds of 1000s of employees in the credit union movement. So why does everybody want to be de? It’s not just, Hey, let’s just go get a designation. There is, there is an ideology to it, and there’s something that really is transforming to an individual when they go through it. It did. It changed me. It changed my whole trajectory of my career. And I think the underground is the same thing that is, if a small credit union CEO comes there, they will, they will leave transformed, because there’s people there that are in their corner that are willing to walk beside them to make that happen. Yeah, I
Sarah Cooke
Usually ask for final thoughts, but that kind of rounded it up pretty darn well. So thank you, Shirley, for your time. Appreciate being here and also supporting the underground. It is the very important and impactful work that they do, and I just impactful. All right. Thank you. Have a great rest of your day
Shirley Senn
Thanks, Sarah, bye.