Sarah Snell Cooke didn’t take long to dig into the critical future of credit union leadership topics with Charles Shanley, founder of Shanley Search Partners. Early in the interview, he described walking into a credit union where the board had no idea how troubled the culture had become. Morale was low, teams were siloed, and the imprint of a former leadership style still affected the atmosphere long after that leader had left. It was an early clue that CEO searches often hinge on the parts of an organization that leaders never see until someone like Charles points them out.
Charles has spent decades placing credit union executives, yet the way he talks about modern leadership feels grounded rather than theoretical. His focus is on people rather than titles. Listening to him describe what truly defines a strong candidate, qualities such as adaptability, emotional intelligence, and the ability to build real relationships, it becomes clear how quickly a search can shift once he understands the environment a new leader will step into.
What unfolds in the full conversation is an honest look at the gap between what boards believe they need and what their organizations actually require. Charles hints at how much influence culture has today and how candidates set themselves apart by pursuing growth that is intentional rather than superficial. He also explains why familiarity with technology is now essential for leaders at every size of credit union.
His perspective on compensation is equally candid. It is less about numbers and more about aligning expectations on both sides so a search does not fall apart before it begins. Throughout the discussion he returns to a central theme. The leaders who are shaping the future of the credit union movement are collaborative, accountable, and ready to steer organizations into what comes next.
The conversation leaves you thinking about the future of credit union leadership in a new way and invites you to hear the rest for yourself.
NOTE: AI is human, so it ain’t perfect. This transcript will have errors; it will receive its punishment later.
Sarah Cooke
Hello. Welcome everybody. I am Sarah Snell Cooke your host here at The Credit Union Connection. I’m here today with Charles Shanley.
Charles Shanley
Welcome, hello. Hi, Sarah.
Sarah Cooke
So Charles has been a is a long time credit union executive recruiting person, and so tell us a little bit more about Stanley Search Partners and yourself,
Charles Shanley
Sure, yeah. Well, I’ve been around for well over 25 years, specializing in really, mostly C level placement for credit unions, a little bit of banking, a little bit of FinTech, those bad words, but, but yeah. Started out working for a competitor, and then I was 20, somewhat years ago. Then I built the search practice from scratch, or ran that for about 15 years, and then brought it out into a standalone company several years ago now. And so, like I said, we specialize mostly in sea level placement. We do a lot of CEO searches, anything really in that sea level area. But if it’s a good client, we will dabble really in anything. But right now it’s mostly credit union CEO searches. I think we got some FinTech things going on, but, but really exciting time for new leaders out there in the industry.
Sarah Cooke
Absolutely. And that’s one of the things we want to focus on today, is leadership development. That’s one of the reasons we started the cranium connection. Is to help, help figure out, identify and train up the leaders for tomorrow, because that is a reason that some of these grant unions are merging away. So first question for you, sir is obviously this process starts with the board and who they’re looking for. Who are they looking for? What are the I’m sure that’s evolved a lot since you started 25 years ago, but yeah, what are modern boards looking for in their next CEO?
Charles Shanley
Sure, and it has changed a little bit. We went on site. We just filled a couple of CEO searches in the past week, and actually, we are on site for a kicking off a new CEO search last week. And so there’s, there are certain competencies that most boards look for, and a lot of times we have to help them with that. We are on site for probably two days just talking to as many individuals and employees at the credit union as we can, just to try to understand what the culture is. And you know what, what’s going to work there, what’s not going to work there, but, and so, you know, some boards, they’re, they’re disconnected from culture, because they’re not supposed to be in the weeds in the daily operations. And so, you know, in this case, last week, they were a little, a little shocked that they heard about there’s some issues going on with culture. So a lot of times we’re, we’re looking for that cultural fit, but oftentimes it’s maybe a cultural builder, yeah, or, or someone that has, let’s say, Transformative Leadership. You know, someone is adaptable, and in this case, that’s exactly what’s going to be needed here, they had some prior authoritative leadership in there a couple of years ago. And you don’t see that as much in the industry, but it does exist. And, and so it’s been, it’s been two years since that person had left, but still, the some of the damage that has been done from that leadership, this on the morale the credit union, you know, there’s silos everywhere. And so in their case, it’s going to take somebody that can really kind of lead the charge of of getting accident and getting the morale up and what’s next, you know, taking them and showing some real vision on what’s next for them. But other than, you know, culture and leadership itself in general, you know, we’re looking for, you know, the overall experience is important, but, but you know, someone that’s probably really passionate about the industry, especially credit union industry. You know, we do like we do like our boards to keep it open to community banking, even the FinTech industry. But most of time, when we make a final presentation, you’re looking at credit and executives, but, but we’re looking for relationship builders. We’re looking for individuals that have emotional intelligence. We’re looking for people that are results driven. You know, be prepared to talk about your success stories. You know how maybe you’ve introduced a new product or made something better, or you’re taking your vision into reality. We’re going to want to hear about those things. But you know, those are some of the general areas. But there, you know, there’s a lot of things you can do it to help prepare yourself to be a CEO these days, and we met with the Carville leadership group last week, and we try to meet with all the graduates from time to time. And it’s a great program to go through if you’re, if you want to be a CEO one day, or if you’re a current CEO and just want to, you know, try to possess stronger leadership qualities and so there was probably 20 really just outstanding executives on this, on this video meeting last week, and, and they’re all doing what they can do to become better leaders and, and so in that case, we just, we went through, you know, our kind of a presentation on what our process is and what they need to do to help better themselves, to be, be a CEO. You know, a lot of it is just. Of you can, you know, you can see, you can see someone that has observations via CEO almost immediately on a resume, within just a few seconds, you know, they’re, they’re doing the things that you should be doing. They’re, they’re making even changes. They’re taking on more responsibilities. They’re, they’re going to cargo leadership, or maybe it’s the CEO Institute, or maybe the Emerging Leaders Program from that exists out there too. So and so there’s just a number of things you can you can focus on to enhance that, that leadership. But I don’t want to keep going rambling on. If you had another question, there’s a good start for us anyways.
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, well, and a lot of the things you’re talking about are not things you learn in school, at least not when I’m I went to school anyway a little bit ago, and, yeah, even, you know, 10 years ago or little over 10 years ago now, when I finished my MBA, there were no classes, not, I don’t even remember a mention of some of those softer skills that you’re talking about, relationship building, being able to adjust and shift a culture that may not have been so good with under the previous CEO, things like that. How do you are those things teachable? I mean, imagine they are to the right people, but yeah, it’s definitely seems like a different focus on leadership.
Charles Shanley
And how do you I think anybody could be a great leader, really? I mean, and certainly the training is going to help you. I don’t think sure there’s probably people that are just born that way, that are born leaders, but, but you can be taught it. I mean, if you really want to improve and be a great manager, and, and, you know, being leaders is also, you know, there’s everybody likes to be. Some people like to be managed different ways. So it’s also kind of adapting your management style, sometimes to two different individuals. So there’s a lot of pieces that go into it, you know, but, you know, a big part of it is not only just immersing yourself in leadership programs, but it’s the networking that you gain from that. I mean, there’s, you know, 20 individuals on my screen, and they all, they all know each other because they went through this program together. It’s the same thing like at the CEO Institute, you know. And so, you know, those relationships that you build are worth gold. I mean, that’s, that’s our we only survive even our business. It’s a relationship business. So, you know, it’s a matter of even going out to conferences, getting involved in the industry, you know, getting out in the community, being involved in the community, especially if you’re a community charter credit union, you know. And so those are the things that we, we look for in candidates that are, that are and so it’s going to, it’s going to help you and even go as far as, you know, building a relationship with the executive search firm, so that we know what your desires are, where you want to go, whether it’s location or asset size, a CEO position or even a C level position. You know, start those relationships, and it’s going to pay off for you.
Sarah Cooke
And one of the things that I’ve heard, I don’t know if you agree or not, so tell me that first. But is, as cranes have grown larger, they’re more C suite and so there’s more lines. They’re more focused on a line of business versus like a full strategic vision of the Credit Union as a whole. Is that something you’re seeing? And how do we fight that? If you agree.
Charles Shanley
Sure, and yeah, it’s just gonna naturally happen as you, as you get larger, you know, great example is they may be a Chief Risk Officer, you know, it’s not, it’s not a sea level position, and when you’re small, craving, but as you grow, it does become, you know, more of a more of a common position. Even like technology, they even have a Chief Information Officer and a Chief Technology Officer. So, so, yeah, we certainly see a new, I don’t know if you can avoid that. You just, you need specialized as those roles become so much more strategic, there’s just a need for that C level experience in those areas. You know, there are, you know, when we’re conducting a CEO search, you know, we are, there is a pattern that we look for, you know, relative to asset size. And I’ll just use maybe a billion dollars as an example, a billion dollar credit union. And so, you know, we’re usually looking for, if we’re looking, if we’re looking to fill the CEO we’re looking for CEOs that are maybe from smaller organizations that are ready to move up in their career to a larger credit union. Or we’re looking for C level that are at larger organizations that are ready to take on the CEO, CEO position. And so maybe the advantage for a board of getting that CEO is that they already have CEO experience. If they have the relationship with the board already, already, they have full accountability for an entire credit union already, but they may not be doing things you’re doing because they’re a smaller organization. And so when you go to a large organization. Let’s say I’m using that billion asset range. We’ll say pull two, $3 billion candidate. That’s maybe a chief experience officer, or chief or COO, you know, well, they’ve been down that road before. They’ve, they’ve, you know, they’ve crossed that billion dollar mark, that billion five. And so they’re doing things that you’re not doing yet, and so, but you know, the kind of the trade off is, they may not have CEO experience. So they may not have as much board relation. So usually, when make our presentation, it’s a mix of, you know, internal candidates, of course, because all internal candidates go through a process, but it could be some current CEOs and C level candidates from larger organizations. And then sometimes, if you get really lucky, it’s somebody that’s been from a large organization and is now, maybe now, maybe a CEO, or has been a CEO before, and has gone to a large organization, so it’s different every time, but, but that’s how you know it’s pretty common. I think people see that, but that’s how it’s really relatable to the asset size, and so it’s a big part of it too.
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, and one of the things that you haven’t talked about is executive compensation.
Charles Shanley
Oh, we’re gonna go there.
Sarah Cooke
We’re going there. So that’s obviously evolved too over time, and not only that, but there’s in particular with credit union boards, because they may come from a particular sag. They don’t necessarily, you know, they’re, you’re looking for a CEO of a financial institution. Yet these are teachers making x, you know, yeah, probably a third to a quarter or less of what your CEO is going to need to be.
Charles Shanley
Yeah, and so that’s, there’s always, sometimes there’s an education that we have to go through with the board of directors, and especially on comp, you know. And a lot of it is because it’s teachers based, you know, you know, it’s interesting. We just, we just fill a credit seat. One of the CEO searches we just filled last week was, was one for unions. And it’s, they’re, all their segs are different unions, you know, and so they’re much different on compensation based on that. And so it’s a good example of how you just have to be adaptable, you know, and listen. And so it was, I wouldn’t say it was a challenge, but understanding how their pay structure is to, you know, it’s all through the union, and even, you know, they have, like, vacation pay. That’s different, you know, they but they do have things like, sometimes they have pensions in there and so which are still a former cert, you know, a supplement only, second retirement plan. So it can be different every time. It’s about understanding the client too, as well. But you know, if it’s and, you know, you there are, you can, you can look at like, you can use teachers. You can use, you know, a base and pull data from teacher base, other teacher based credit union, so you can get, you can start to narrow the data down a little bit. But at the end of the day, if you really want a strong CEO, you’re going to have to pay in market, you know, and there’s a low and a mid range. You got to be in it. You have to be in a lower mid range. We sometimes, you know, no, most credits don’t pay above midpoint, but, but, yeah. And so there’s, you know, especially if you have a long term CEO in place and you’re going through a search, I mean, there can be some sticker shock, you know, they just, especially if it’s been maybe an internal candidate, they’ve got the position and they were in that role. And so they don’t push for raises through the years, and then then when it comes to and they just been growing through those years. And then when you know, the board compares what the market is compared to what that current CEO is making. And, and it can be a problem, and we go through that quite a bit. It’s very, very common, and it’s, you know, we have every survey out there. We have our own data that’s more accurate than survey data. And so we work with those boards to educate them on what it’s going to take, and, and, and that’s early on, you know, that’s like at the very beginning of the process, because we have to make sure that we’re going to, we at least have, you know, come to some agreement. Because the end of the day, you do get what you pay for, you know, and, and so, but there is a range, and we don’t, you know, we don’t, we don’t like to give candidates ranges technically, because then they always want the high end of the range. But some, but what? Some? Some states you have to post those ranges regardless inside the position announcement. But we want to make sure that their expectations, the candidates, expectations, are realistic, you know, and so, and that the board expectations are also realistic. And we try to make it a fair offer on both ends. But to, you know, especially the world of SERPs, you run into some situations where, you know, maybe the board hasn’t gone down that road to serve before. If you’re 500 million above credit union, you’re doing probably a SERP. So you already have a cert, probably with your CEO, but and so there can be some education on that. We recommend. There’s a couple good companies that do that, do a good job at SERPs, and we will throw their name in there for education purposes, for them to talk to and just get as much information as you can. I know, Gallagher does a really good job. Earnest Consulting Group does a really good job. There’s some free plugs for them, I guess. But, you know, but, but they do. They do a fair job at, you know, offering different options for them, but, and so, yeah, and there’s, you know, split dollar insurance plans usually more common these days, but, and so it can be an education for the board sometimes, but it’s very, very common these days to have those parts of compensation included. And so we, we don’t do service ourselves. I think it’s a conflict of interest. Is why we more recommend companies that do a good job and. And, but, yeah, it’s, you know, make sure that you’re in market for base and even incentive based comp, you know, and, and that’s a whole other topic on how, how you build that, you know, what I call a balanced scorecard. You know, it’s what are the components that build up that that incentive based comp. And, of course, they’re going to be, you know, the financial metrics, your ROA and your capital ratios, which is great, you know. But you know, if you, if you make, if your financial metrics are the only things in your in your bonus incentive, and then the CEO will manage just to those metrics, you know. And so you have to have, you know, a balance of, you know, non financial metrics in there, MPs and promoter score. And so that’s a great example. It’s in, you know, customer status, member satisfaction and also maybe employee satisfaction in there, as some other metrics to help balance out those financial ratios. So it’s, you gotta think about all those different components of it. And a lot of times, when you’re, you’re starting a new CEO, you don’t, you don’t necessarily have it all lined out either. You know, even in our offer letters, it’s a percentage of base up to this amount, and then it’s to be to determine with the with the board and with the CEO input, because you want, you want the CEO to be a part of those discussions on, you know what the goals are, but what are they? How realistic they are, too, as well. So setting those, those goals together with the CEO and the board is what needs to be done to make sure they’re because you want some of this be Agnes, you know, there’s a big area audacious goals in there too. But you also have some, some different points where you’re hitting the mark, and you want to have, you know, incidents based on those as well. But so, yeah, I think that’s lot of talk on compensation. It’s been changing a lot through the years and but I think it’s just, you got, we have to listen to our clients on that and see where they’re, you know, what’s going on, and then, and then just be supportive of them and providing the data that’s for the market, and you’re gonna get there eventually. I mean, the data is what the data is. And so you’re, you know, but we can show them candidates at this range and candidates at this range, and there’s going to be, there’s going to be a big difference. And then, of course, you have your internal candidates to, you know, an internal candidate, if they’re selected, you don’t just give them a bump from where they’re at, you know, you have to pay market, although maybe a large chunk that they’re moving into as they’re moving into the CEO role. But you have to still pay market. And so a lot of boards think sometimes boards will all just go the cheaper option, maybe over our internal just because we think we can pay them less well. That’s not how it works. You know, you still have to pay market, and you have to pay that internal candidate of you know what the range is and and pay market. So as part of the education to you know through boards, if they don’t believe that already, so it’s a lot, it’s a lot going on. It’s just a touch of that compensation topic. But I probably answered your question on that. I think, yeah, yeah.
Sarah Cooke
Okay, absolutely. And from the other side, though, as the prospective CEO say you haven’t been a CEO before, or, you know, what do they need to know that they want to ask for as part of their comp package?
Charles Shanley
That’s a good question, because, you know, surveys are for current CEOs. And so, you know? And so you they may pull, be pulling their own data, and they say, Okay, here’s midpoint. Here’s what it is actually making midpoint. Well, well, that midpoint is actually for that sets a CEO, right? There is that making that midpoint. And so and so, you may not be making midpoint if you’re not CEO, because you still have to prove yourself as a CEO. Now, it’s a little bit different. If you are a CEO that’s from a small organization, you’re moving into a larger credit union, then you have more of a case to get to that, that midpoint but, but so there is, there can be, you can be a little lower than that, that that that midpoint range, or wherever they’re, they’re, they’re saying a midpoint or where they’re really want to fall into that range, just because you’re Not a CEO, just yet, you know, because that’s and so there are things you can do even in those situations. So you can have a, maybe it’s a, it’s a faster review process, you know, instead of, it’s an annual review, okay, we’re, we’re going to start you here, but in six months we’re going to do it. We’re going to do a quicker review of you and see, see how things moving along at that case, we’ll give you the bump up from there. So there’s, you know, in offer, there’s, you never get everything you want, yeah, and so you but you have to. There’s ways to kind of get around certain things. And if it’s, you know, there’s a base, there’s incentive, there’s car allowances. I mean, there’s even the benefit side. Sometimes CEOs are paid the free bit, you know, their premiums are paid for free. So, you know, we’ve got, we usually have some wiggle room and somewhere and, and so as we try to focus on what’s important to you, you know, and, and then if we get those things, and the other things are that are not as important we, you know, we don’t go to battle for those and, but so that’s, that’s the approach, I would say, for. Anybody that is, is going to be looking for an offer from for anything, not just CEO, is, you know, what’s, what’s important to you, and, and what do you, what do you want to get out of this? And, and then, and be realistic, you know, and because, you know, there’s, there’s always another candidate out there. Yeah, that says, I guarantee you, when we’re have a final presentation, and board goes through multiple reviews of candidates and and they narrow it down, and there’s always still a couple two or three in there, and, and if we can’t come to an agreement, there’s another candidate there that that is more realistic on this expectation. So just be realistic. And I think, really, you know, when we’re talking about CEOs, you know, if your money is an important motivator, but it’s not as it’s not as important as you think it is when we get down to the line on it, it’s really the opportunity itself and if money is the number one motivator for a candidate, they’re really not going to make it through our process. Their motivating factors have to be different. They’re going to want this, this position. Specifically, they’re not applying to every CEO position we have. It’s just this one. And so, you know, we’re, you know, we’re targeting candidates that are in those markets. And so it is really just this opportunity. And so they’re in it for the right reasons. And so when it comes down to an offer. Gosh, I can’t remember the last time I’ve had an offer turn down. It’s been years, really, because, you know, because of the process we have and then usually it’s just education, you know, for with boards and candidates on, on what realistic expectations are.
Sarah Cooke
Mm, hmm. And as far as, like, one of the huge things right now is technology, and it probably will be the rest of our lives and beyond. How much more emphasis are boards putting on that knowledge, not necessarily knowing how to do the stuff, but at least, like, at a strategic level, the not the technology knowledge. Because one of the things I’ve observed, I don’t know if it’s a trend or not. Is I’ve seen a couple more like CIOs CTOs become CEOs recently.
Charles Shanley
Absolutely and that is a trend, you know. And you know, 15 years ago it was, it was pretty tough for the CIOs and CTOs to make that transition straight into a CEO. And we do, we do see it, and it’s great if you have some different background, besides just the technology, really the most diverse background you have, the better candidate you can be, you know, but, but you Yeah, but, so, but, but if it’s not a CIO or CTO, they are looking for candidates that are tech savvy, for sure, you’re gonna whether it’s the gone through a full digital transformation, online, mobile banking, all those systems in place and there. And even the whole strategy beyond that, we’re looking for that if you’re a billion enough, you already have that, and for sure, but especially if you’re a smaller credit, even smaller credits, we’re looking for that as someone that has gone, you know, is the part of data driven decision making, you know, and so, huge, huge area, especially with the way technology is changing. And AI, and I’m not gonna get into any of that right now, but, but so they’re looking for candidates that are like that, that are that are comfortable in that range, you know. But at the end of the day, you want, you really want to be as well versed in as many areas as you possibly can to be the best candidate you can. And so that technology is just one of those, but, but, but, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s definitely top of mind for what we’re looking for. It’s, it’s a part of, you know, we in our process. We have questioner projects that we do. We have, you know, we have presentations that candidates have to do. And so there’s a series of interviews they go through, and technology is involved in all those questions, is involved in all of all of those projects and interviews. And so it’s you’re not going to get around it. It’s you’re, we’re going to find out about it going through our process.
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, yeah. And so how is it been, as far as, like, the generational shifts. I mean, right now, I imagine a lot of the CEO candidates are probably Gen X, and then you also got some older millennials in the mix.
Charles Shanley
Be careful, I’m Gen X.
Sarah Cooke
Same here the Forgotten generation. So, yeah, when? So, how is it different looking at candidates of different generations? Because I know those generational differences are more generalizations at the same time. Yeah, exists because it’s real. You know, the characteristics of the generation. Generations exist because it’s, it’s pretty calm.
Charles Shanley
Yeah, and they’re and they’re, they’re growing up in it. And so really, the candidates that are, yeah, I mean, a lot of the we do, a lot of most of our CEO positions are retirements, and there’s some that are forced retirements. But, and so that’s my generation, Gen X, and, and beyond, and, and so we’re not as tech savvy, you know, but, but, but it depends, you know, you don’t. It doesn’t have to be just because that generation, I mean, there are some CEOs that are, you know, they’re, they’re really, towards the end part of their career, they’re very tech savvy and, and it’s just, it’s just, you have to, and the competency behind that CEO that is that way, is they’re adaptable, you know, they’re adaptable, and they see and they embrace change. And so if you, if you’re a lot, yeah, if you’re that type of CEO, and you’re, you know, in an older generation, yeah, Heck, yeah. You know, that’s, that’s what we’re looking for, and, and, and you’ll see that those credit unions, that they’re that, that, that they’re that they’re employed at, are very progressive. And those are so especially when you and it also finds it, it depends on your board, you know, are you? Are you a tech board. You know, are a lot, you know, a lot of boards hate say it, but a lot of boards are have some board members that are aging, you know, no term limits. And so when you have boards like that, they’re not, I mean, they’re they know tech. They may know technology a little bit, but they’re not pushing it as hard. So you’re part of that is at board level. You know about having some term limits, getting some fresh blood on that board. You know that is a little more tech savvy and diversifying the background of the board, bringing some tech in for some technology in there, bringing some CIOs onto that board. And so it’s a responsibility of that board, I think, too, to have a diverse board that embraces those different areas. And so it all starts there and then. And then there’ll be more acceptable to executives in that area. And, you know, it’s not, you know, bleeding edge, but you got to be going to be maybe leading edge, or in the pack and so it’s, and that’s really where we see a lot of the, you know, the younger candidates really shining on that tech area, coming through that, even through that digital area, and then coming up through maybe the, you know, the retail operation side and then, you know, when you’re looking at a COO or CXO today, you know, before it was maybe just the branches, and maybe it’ll throw some lending in there and some marketing, but, but now it’s, now It’s all the digital delivery, you know, that’s under the CXO or the COO, and so those areas are over like the bulk of the organization, you know, they have the most candidates, most responsibilities, reporting after them, and a lot of times boards pull from that area to be their next CEO because of that. Now they have that has the most diverse background, but also that technology is, is in there, moving in there, between under that vertical, and so, so, yeah, better, better be everybody we’ve talked through, through these, through these leadership groups, high tech. They’re all they know about. They’re involved, and if not, I mean attending conferences. I mentioned networks before, but, but definitely getting out there and being a part of those conferences where, you know, they have those emerging technologies coming out and discussing those things.
Sarah Cooke
So, yeah, for sure. So as we’re going to wrap up here, I always love, I guess, to have final thoughts, Charles, what would you like to leave our credit union audience work?
Charles Shanley
I think maybe, just maybe, a summary of what we’re, you know, what we’re discussing was about today. I think it’s, you know, we’re looking for leaders that are potentially transformative leadership. So focusing on, on being adaptable in the industry, and really, you know, building relationships. And that’s within your network, that’s within the industry, and we maybe even with the firm, you know, and you know, and being a culture leader, you know, and having even that emotional intelligence that collaborate. I didn’t mention the word collaborative leadership today, so, you know, I mentioned, you know, that authoritative leadership that is fading away, but it’s still out there. So the leaders we look for today are collaborative leaders. You know, they’re, but they’re also, you know, they’re not, not all the way to this side, people pleasers, because sometimes, you know, they don’t hold people accountability. So it is, it is, you know, a balance of accountability in there too. So you have to be we’re looking for, and that was some of the problems that when we visited with this other organization, is there’s a real lack of accountability throughout the organization. So, you know, we want leaders, leaders that have accountability and so, you know that results driven leader that has that vision, and they can take that vision to a real plan, and we’re going to ask you about, you know, when you have you done that and then, so, you know, I think it’s just being on top of the industry, and it’s a lot of exciting things right now, and being a part of that is a lot of fun. So that’s, that’s what I think I’ll leave with you. Leave you with today.
Sarah Cooke
No Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. Charles, appreciate it. You bet I
Charles Shanley
You bet, Sarah, take care. Bye.