The financial safety of our older loved ones has never been more critical than now in a world where publicly available AI is free to anyone. Sarah Snell Cooke, host of The Credit Union Connection, recently sat down with Todd Rovak, CEO and co-founder of Carefull, to shed light on the pervasive issue of elder fraud and how his company is providing a vital shield for seniors and their families. Their conversation, available in full in the video below, reveals staggering statistics and innovative solutions.
Todd highlights that elder fraud extends beyond the most elderly, encompassing individuals in their 50s and beyond often targeting those in retirement age. He states that the average age of Carefull’s members is in the low to mid-50s – the same as credit unions. The scams often exploit behavioral vulnerabilities and even issues related to brain health, such as Alzheimer’s disease. From the increasingly common “toll bridge scam” texts to sophisticated “pig butchering” romance scams that cultivate relationships before requesting money, the tactics are constantly evolving. Todd stresses that these are not unsophisticated attacks; they are “enterprise-level scams” designed to target individuals of a certain age and with specific financial balances, irrespective of their intelligence.
“Dementia and Alzheimer’s can be detected in transactional data up to six years before a clinical diagnosis.”
A key tool in Carefull’s arsenal is ScamCheck, an AI-powered engine trained to identify elder fraud patterns. Members can forward suspicious texts or direct messages to ScamCheck, which then informs them if it’s legitimate or a known scam, even predicting what the scammer might say next. This proactive approach helps to intervene before financial loss occurs. (Article continues below video – but watch the video for more details!!)
One of the most alarming aspects discussed is the low reporting rate of these crimes, with only 1 in 44 elder fraud cases being reported. This often leaves credit unions as the first point of contact when a scam has reached a critical stage. Rovak emphasizes the need for proactive measures, noting that “if a romance scam gets to the branch, then it’s very, very late stage.”
Carefull, as Rovak explains, acts as a financial safety platform provided by credit unions as a member benefit. They monitor checking, savings, brokerage accounts, and even home titles, with members connecting an average of 5.2 accounts. Crucially, Carefull involves family members through a “trusted contact infrastructure,” with 75% of members bringing in a family member.
Todd cited research from Johns Hopkins that suggests dementia and Alzheimer’s can be detected in transactional data up to six years before a clinical diagnosis. By identifying subtle behavioral shifts in financial activity, such as irresponsible charitable donations or repeat purchases, Carefull can alert families to potential cognitive decline, enabling earlier intervention and support.
This interview is a must-watch for anyone concerned about the financial well-being of older adults. Todd Rovak provides invaluable insights into the evolving landscape of elder fraud and how innovative solutions like Carefull are empowering families and credit unions to protect their loved ones.
Disclosure: Transcript below is automatically generated
Sarah Cooke
Hello and welcome everybody. My name is Sarah Snell Cooke. I am your host here at the Credit Union Connection, and I am very happy to have my guest today. Todd Rovak, who is the CEO and co-founder of Carefull. Welcome today. Thanks for having me. Excited to be here. Absolutely great to have you. So tell us a little bit more about Carefull.
Todd Rovak
Yeah, so Carefull is a financial safety platform. We are provided by credit unions to members as a member benefit, and we focus on older members. And that does not mean the most elderly, although it includes them, it often means retirement age and beyond. And so our average age is somewhere around low 50s and low 50s, mid 50s, and we look for things that affect older adults and those that are things like senior scams and romance scams and money laundering and all kinds of things that, um, you know, that they fall victim to, which are often behavioral and not just transactional, issues, their choices that they make, or issues around brain health. And what we do is we monitor their checking, their savings, they give, they connect an average of 5.2 accounts. So we look at their brokerage. We’ll look at their home Title and make sure that they’re safe. We involve their family members in that as well. So through our trusted contact infrastructure, when members are provided Carefull, 75% of them bring a family member in in some way. And through all that, we pick up a phone and we help them when they’re in trouble. We want to make sure that their credit is monitored, that they have a million dollars of identity theft insurance. And overall, we’re a really powerful member benefit that is really sticky, really engaging, and protects them from the 37 billion of elder fraud and exploitation right there today.
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, the numbers are staggering. And I like kind of what you pointed out at the beginning, we focus a lot on Gen Z and the younger people, and we should at the same time, we still, you know, credit union’s average member age is 53 so right in that sweet spot where you that you were talking about, and where I’m heading soon, I guess, a few years. But so, yeah, I was reading that the FBI was saying elder fraud is up like 14% there’s, you know, the grandparent scam, the romance scam you were talking about, what are? What are some of those more common scams? And kind of explain them, because I know some of them, but not all of them, I’m sure.
Todd Rovak
So they live in categories. They are also changing every day. The one right now that’s out there is the toll bridge scam, and is a text that everyone’s receiving saying you have an unpaid whatever right toll, bridge toll or something that you do have easy passives on the East Coast, fast track on the West Coast, and all the different flavors in the middle. But generally, it is getting so much worse, because it has changed over the last 24 months, from being a series of emails to a full on industry that is texting and emailing and direct messaging through social platforms like Facebook and and they fall into, you know, some categories, many of which we know about. One is called pig butchering. Romance scams live in there, and that’s the idea of creating a relationship with somebody. So not saying I need you to, you know, send me this money now, but actually starting to have a dialog with them through some channel, and then getting them to invest in a little crypto and then believing that they have a girlfriend who lives in Poland. And the credit unions know these stories instantly, because these stories walk into the branch, and by the time they do, it’s a crisis. It’s, it’s, this is my money. I need you to send that wire to my new girlfriend, right? It sounds like that, because that person has been coached. And so, you know, you’ll find the credit union leaders and, you know, employees really, really know about, you know, this pig butchering and romance scams. There’s a lot you talked about grandparent scam, where they’re getting the category of things, saying someone in your family is in trouble. Zelle is dangerous at the moment. Has been for about two years. It continues to be where the I would say, our older members know just enough about Zelle and Venmo to be dangerous. All the friction out of getting money out of accounts, which is wonderful if you’re 25 and not if you’re 75 and so now they’re getting texts saying, you know, you did? You have an unpaid IRS sell this or face a penalty. And that creates so much urgency and so much anxiety that really only one in. 44 of these goes reported. Wow. So even the numbers that we know about right? Credit unions know about it all day, because it’s happening every day, but but I think more broadly, we think it’s a once in a while or that happens to one person over there. It’s happening to everybody. It’s just that. It’s just they. People don’t talk about it as much. I think now we’re seeing it come out from the shadows of it, and becoming something that financial institutions want to help people deal
Sarah Cooke
and how many people, their family members, who are helping to take care of them don’t even know? You know,
Todd Rovak
you’re you’re right. You know, although I will say, Sarah, there’s one thing that that doesn’t get brought up enough, but I will say here is that for all the texts and all of the scams, and we can tell you 1000 flavors of senior scams. There’s a lot of stuff that comes from within the trusted circle too, and that there, and that’s because we have now 50 million people who are involved in their parents money, and they are what we call financial caregivers, and they are logging in as their parents, and they’re trying to keep the train on the tracks. And most of the time they’re doing the right things. But sometimes we also see what we call systematic train, where someone feels entitled to maybe take 50 to 100 regularly out. And sometimes we will find older members really shocked to find that they don’t have what they thought they had, because someone was quote, unquote, helping
Sarah Cooke
them. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And some of these things are so believable, like I’d fall, I mean, the grandparent scam, that’s scary as hell, because I’ve seen it, not personally, but just watched videos of things like that happening. Yeah, so,
Todd Rovak
sir, you’re getting to something really important here, which is this is, this is not for, just to be blunt, this is not for people who are dumb, right? Carefull. This is not for the idea of, oh, how could you should have known better, of course, that, um, these are really sophisticated enterprise level scams that are meant to to target people of a certain age and certainly with certain balances. And so you will find all kinds of sophisticated, successful people who are busy, who are getting a text and just hitting that thing. This is not about intelligence. This is not about being gullible. Although we like to use those words, I think we should use less, because really, I think that there’s so much of it that the stigma needs to go away, and we need to be talking a lot more about what protections are we giving our members so so now, protection around this has to be broader than just about scams, right? And so that’s one of the reasons we we’ve we’re looking at all kinds of things, so it’s not just, not just about scams, but we also need to think about how healthy they are, and that requires different types of technology than a credit union may have, may have today,
Sarah Cooke
right right now. Before I want to, I would definitely want to get into that, but before we do, I want to talk about just the example you kind of gave. Yeah, person walks in the door. I now have a girlfriend in Poland. I’m going to send them $5,000 whatever. What can a credit union do at that
Todd Rovak
point? Yeah, and put as much friction into that moment as possible that person’s being coached. So not only is it hard, that person will make it hard for you to help them right. Any BSA officer knows how hard it is to coach someone out of these moments. So I would suggest, you know, the playbook ended up moments is really around slowing things down and involving Trusted Contacts, making sure you have have them as part of that, but evolving Trusted Contacts and putting friction in and risking the relationship. But the problem is, is that if a romance scam gets to the branch, then it’s pretty then it’s very, very late stage. So the real answer is to be way out ahead of that, right, looking for the signals. Because before they wanted to send $50,000 someone asked them to put $500 in a crypto account, or $50 little things that doesn’t look like fraud, or ask them for a charitable donation, or had them do, or they signed up for a dating website of a certain age. Maybe they added a new trusted contact that is not in their family. Maybe that, maybe they started moving money and using peer to peer payments in some way. Those things individually are fine, but they add up to what looks like a romance scam from 100 miles away. But you have to be able to see that data when they’re out there living their lives, right when they’re in crisis mode and completely spun up and coached, right? We need to be months and months and months ahead of that. And when we do that, we can call them Carefull. Does that with us. People rip content saying, Hey, you’re about to be asked for money. Hey, I see a pattern. Looks like you’re about to be asked for money. And we will do that with a series of emails. There’s a lot you can do if you’re earlier, but in that moment, very, very it can be very, very difficult,
Sarah Cooke
right, right? And then talk a little bit about, like, what you’re what you were saying, how do you, how do you spot it? What are some of the trends that you see in the transactions?
Todd Rovak
Yeah, so again, we will see some of testing new investment types which do not, again, not fraud. They have them. I think people are obsessed with that. Identity Theft. And what I will tell what I’ll tell you, is with older adults, it’s always them, it’s always them, it’s them. And so it’s not an identity issue. Therefore, all these little transactions don’t look like fraud, because their identity is verified. But they are again, signing up for dating sites. They are we see changes in address behavioral change. So that looks like they start making payments to people, they start to make riskier investments, they start to transact in new ways. They start to move money in different ways. But they’re little. They’re not the big fraud triggers. They’re these little behavioral signals. And when we do that, we can start to say, okay, these things start to wait. And so it’s actually quite complex data exercise to do, although we do it really, we do it in real time, right? And we’re able to say, Okay, this starts to look like smoke before it’s fine. So that’s when we want to start. And again, we’re not saying you have a fake girlfriend. That’s not the message anyone wants to hear. It’s actually the opposite of you might be getting asked for money soon, or this is what a romance scam is, right? So we’re sitting at where we’re we’re not the accusing child. Our job is to be feel to them like a benefit, where they’re getting content around this is what, these are the signals that you might be in a romance scam. So they’re able to get themselves out of these things before they become addicted to the feeling of interest, which becomes very much like addiction behavior. So there are lots of different signals we use over between nine and 13 in order to identify a romance scam. There are some we use way more, and some that are like gift card scams that are much easier to find, but it’s really about intervening with the right combination of content. We have something called scam check where, when they get in a Facebook direct message or a text on their phone, like we’re all getting a fake QPS text, they can just forward that to Carefull, and we’ll let them know if it’s real. Someone that’s pretending to be a person starting a relationship. We can always let them know this is real or not. Why we think it’s not real, what these scams look like, what they’re going to say next. And so we want to be there at so many different points that including onshore human beings, sometimes you just need someone to get on the phone with you and talk to and so I don’t want to over overstate the relationship aspect of elder fraud. There’s a segment of older members that will speak to one human being in a day, and there’s a subset of that that will speak to one human being out loud in a week one. And so we have to behave as if we are going to be that person, right? They’re lonely. They do. They’re not getting a lot of help. And so sometimes we have to take our time, right? And listen and be there. And it’s not about getting them off the phone and getting to the transaction solution. It’s just about being there for somebody that’s a lot of the job in terms of romance scam on behalf of a financial institution as well.
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, no, I saw the scam check because, look, I was like, wow, how’s
Todd Rovak
that? It’s a big AI engine that just that is trained on all the things that we know about elderfrog. And so, you know, I think we built the only brain in the industry that looks for what happens to
Sarah Cooke
older adults. Yeah, I’m going to include that the scam check in particular in the show notes. I thought that was really cool, because, I mean, it’s just words on a page, and a human being may not even understand the nuance of it, whereas the AI can see all those different transaction points you were talking about as well. And, yeah, it’s just fascinating that that’s even possible now.
Todd Rovak
It’s come such a long way, even over the past 18 months, it really has. We’re just finding fire there, by the way. They’re using AI the badge, of course, yes, no, so are we. So we just fight fire with fire, right? I think it’s a time. I think there’s this expectation now of financial institutions that you’re like, look, I’m on my own here. Help me out, like, with like, let’s show AI is one of those things that can be, can be a force for good, and scam protection
Sarah Cooke
is a great use case. And we see, you know, with our own parents, grandparents, what have you the the cognitive decline that happens whether they have, you know something truly, you know wrong, or it’s just being old, you know, just forgetting things and they’re, you know, I know you all recently partnered with Alzheimer’s Association and saw there’s 7.2 million people over the age of 65 living with Alzheimer’s right now, and that equates to many millions of free caregivers, the children or nieces or what have you, or husbands or spouses that are taking care of them, and billions of hours of care. And how do you equip those families to deal with that or to identify it and take it early,
Todd Rovak
of course. So you’re right. We did just partner with Alzheimer’s Association. It’s the culmination of something we’ve been working on for many years. We’ve been around about five years, and in that time, we have leveraged some of the late. Research on cognitive decline, the Johns Hopkins study that showed that dementia and Alzheimer’s can first be diagnosed in transactional data to six years before it can be diagnosed in the doctor’s office. So that means that’s our that’s we’re protecting it from scams. So that means we can see other things too, if we care and and so it’s been years of really honing this idea of, can we see the signals earlier? Because for that big number that you you just mentioned, there’s so many early undiagnosed cases. Think of our your own parents. Think of your own family, those you know, loved ones, where we say, just being old, well, forgetfulness and judgment and repeat purchases and all the signals of of dementia show up in financial behavior first. So the in charitable donations a really good example. And we have a whole module just based on charity, charity and charitable behavior, because that’s not bad. It’s not a bad place. It comes from. It’s not the Oh, I forgot where my keys are. That’s not the behavior. But what you’ll see is people giving irresponsibly or giving repeat donations that they don’t intend to give. And the charities, by the way, they’re well intentioned some, but some of them just love that. And they’ll keep coming at older adults, and you’ll have members who will have these family conversations that sound like, Wait, you’ve been giving how much to who? And, oh yes, particularly during political campaigns, by the way, both both parties will adults and other members of the world is ending all these recurrent deductions. So, so anyway, so we look, we care about brain health, and we look for these transactions signals, these behavioral signals, where we can start to say, hey, we see a concerning pattern. And sometimes it’s bills, and sometimes it’s other types of behavior and mobility. And there’s lots of interesting signals around cognitive decline in Alzheimer’s. But because of the way Carefull is set up, we also include family members, right? Sometimes it’s people doing it for their parents. Sometimes it’s trusted contacts receiving alerts if there’s a problem, sometimes it’s trusted contacts receiving full visibility. Sometimes it’s them receiving Password Manager access, so that we don’t have to we can get out of the kitchen drawer and just help each other a little easier, in a safe way, without sharing bank passwords. So so what our job here is to be there early with a lot of content. We have a whole body of content on money and dementia and money and Alzheimer’s, and how do we how do we set ourselves up to continue to live independently or safely or support someone else? What are the things we should do, whether it’s Bill Pay or pattern recognition that can help families stay independent for longer? Robbing someone of their independence is the opposite. It’s most of the action in older members happens in this big, underserved period between like 50 and 75 when they’re living independently and fine. It’s not your just your most elderly alone include, how do we help them through this period where they’re they’re not getting new tools every day. They’re they’re not not being around introducing new apps every day for older adults. Well, brain health is one of those things where they need an extra layer of support. So really proud of this partnership with the Alzheimer’s Association, because it allows us to leverage so much new content, allows us to share data, not customer data, allows us to share our research, I should say, in ways that lets us see these patterns on behalf of a lot of people, and move the needle in the overall conversation about early detection, early intervention, and eventually, hopefully, hopefully some resolution here.
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, it’s interesting that, you know, it even affects the medical society as well, being able to determine that six years ahead of a clinical diagnosis, that’s crazy, absolutely.
Todd Rovak
And I cannot tell you how it’s we treat vulnerability and scams and mental acuity and mental kind of capacity as separate issues, and they’re absolutely not so. So you know what happens when, when all of the scams that you and I are getting are targeted at somebody who may not be in a position to make good decisions, but still living independently, maybe signing up for new subscriptions all the time, right? I mean, we have to be with these things are really related as it comes to financial wellness and financial health, and that’s one of the reasons why the credit union lives at the center of this for families, both generations, frankly, but with caregiving generation now, Gen X and millennials and the kind of boomerang older adult generation, if they don’t do it, who’s going to do it, right? So that’s why it’s been such an interesting fit with credit unions over the
Sarah Cooke
years. Yeah, and that’s what I was going to ask too. Obviously, you want to help older people, and you you know that is a great way to reach them at their financial institution. How do you work with the credit unions? Like
Todd Rovak
so, we’re a software provider to a credit union. A credit union, typically about 90% of the time will will pay for a Carefull, small monthly fee and then provide it at no cost to their membership. Mm. So sometimes it’s attached to a certain account type. More often than not, it’s provided to the whole membership as a member. Why? Because it’s really broad. It works for everybody, not just all their adults. It’s financial safety. So that’s credit monitoring. It’s million dollars of identity theft insurance. Is a big stack of things to provide in one package, like giving your members Netflix, right? They value it, get it, and they like it, and and we simply and we don’t need to integrate to do it. So we stand up at non integrated microsite we can integrate. We’re q2 integrated, with many more coming in the in the weeks ahead, but, but more often than not, we stand up a micro site where there’s no IT integration, right? They will connect their own accounts. They typically connect an average of 5.2 accounts, meaning they love to connect the share of wallet. They give two trusted contacts. So I get we get to see share of family, right? Credit Union is doing is preserving this relationship and then really starting a new one with the next generation
Sarah Cooke
is the credit see that data to the other accounts that they’re connecting to. Carefull, I’m sorry say that again, this is the credit union. Also see the
Todd Rovak
credit union can see the share of wallet because we’re permissioning the which is a we get to see, you know, where else they where else they bank and right big deal competitively for our credit unions as well, from a growth standpoint, and to be able to engage those trusted contacts and bring them in and at the same time delight somebody. So it’s like two sided because
Sarah Cooke
it does, I imagine it takes a lot of pressure off the caregiver. Yeah, I know my mom did it for my grandmother when she was getting older.
Todd Rovak
Everybody does. Every everybody has a story. Every single person gets here. And I would argue it’s the most underserved financial need state on Earth is helping your parents out with their money, because it’s not about them being sold, that they’re taking the keys away. It’s this part where you just need to keep the train on the tracks with them, right. And we do that work for them just right, and we don’t. They don’t need to log in and impersonate someone and look line by line, and look see if they signed up for subscriptions. Look for product. We just do that, right, right? Typically, a financial caregiver, typically the third of the time she’s female, she has a job, she has kids, she is tired. This is unpaid and and for us to although it’s becoming more and more 5050, male, female, I should say, so there’s a job to do for her too, right? And she’s in her 40s, sometimes 30s, sometimes 60s, taking care of 8980s Yes, so you really can’t guess by age, but it’s a huge need state for that next generation to just give them their time and their peace of mind back.
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, that’s awesome, because I’m sure I’m not too far, far from this stage as well. Not myself, my parents, and then I take care of them, but so, yeah, I always allow my guests the final thoughts. I think we’ve talked about a lot today. What would you like to wrap up with?
Todd Rovak
You know, I think as it specifically, as it relates to credit unions, I think impacting families in this way, in the moments that matter, as we say, is is is so aligned with the core mission of what makes credit unions different and special. And I think there’s a better marketing way of saying that, because I’m not a marketing person, so I’m sure that. But I think we have come to feel, I should say, after, after now, a few, few years of working in the credit union space, and that really being our fastest growing segment, this alignment that I don’t think we knew existed, and that this is a kind of thing that a lot of credit unions feel like there’s nothing you can do about. And it’s like, Oh God, it’s so sad, and it’s risky reputationally, and it’s risky for other reasons, but I would say that, that, you know, there is something to do now and and I think, I think, I hope that comes as a relief and something that’s exciting, particularly for a group that has already cared about this, right, that is already in this that knows these families and built these relationships, sometimes over generations and so. So it’s a long winded answer to a short question, but I think, I think I think I’ve just been so surprised pleasantly by the fit.
Sarah Cooke
No Awesome. Well, thank you so much Todd for your time today. I appreciate it.
Todd Rovak
Thank you for having me excited to be here.