In a candid conversation, Jennifer Oliver, currently at the $1.24 billion Rize Credit Union, offered a compelling look at the evolving challenges and opportunities within the credit union movement. Drawing from her extensive career spanning over 30 years across credit unions of varying sizes, Oliver shared insights gained during her journey from leading a $150 million South Bay Credit Union in California to $4 billion Municipal Credit Union during its conservatorship, and her current position as CEO at Rize Credit Union.
Oliver highlighted the distinct hurdles faced by smaller credit unions, particularly in attracting talent and keeping pace with technological advancements. A working group she is part of identified technology as the biggest concern for smaller institutions, followed by education and compensation. She noted that while larger credit unions may have an easier time attracting skilled professionals, the strategic challenges, such as getting messaging out, telling their story effectively, and connecting with members, remain consistent across the board, regardless of size.
A significant point of discussion was the concept of Credit Union Shared Services (CUSS), led by a working group of Mitchell Stankovic Underground Community members. Oliver is a passionate advocate for this approach, believing it can help credit unions, especially smaller ones, survive and thrive. Shared services can address critical areas like technology infrastructure and cybersecurity, where hiring dedicated internal expertise can be cost-prohibitive for smaller institutions. The idea of fractional leadership, where expertise is shared across multiple credit unions, was presented as an exciting opportunity to implement strong security systems and strategies that are transferable. Oliver emphasized that while brand and member communication should remain unique to each credit union, back-office functions like processing drafts or managing IT infrastructure do not need to be. This collaboration can lead to reduced operating and labor costs, freeing up staff to focus on serving members.
The conversation also touches upon the sensitive issue of retirement planning for credit union executives, particularly in smaller institutions where there often is no senior executive retirement plan (SERP). Oliver noted that the lack of an adequate retirement plan can sadly be a factor in a credit union’s decision to merge or the CEO retiring in poverty. The Mitchell Stankovic & Associates’ Underground Community and its CUSS program are exploring solutions for this often-taboo topic.
Oliver stressed the importance of preserving the unique identities of credit unions, arguing that they often serve specific niches and communities that might be overlooked in a merger. She sees the increase in new credit union applications as exciting and believes that shared services can provide the necessary support and resources for these startups to succeed.
To delve deeper into the findings and recommendations discussed, access the Underground CUSS white paper here.
You can also read a case study with Rize Credit Union here!
Watch the full interview below to gain more valuable perspectives on the future of credit unions and the power of collaboration.
Disclosure: Transcript below is automatically generated
Sarah Cooke 00:02
Yeah, trying to get out of the work part. Oh, hello and welcome everybody to the crane connection. I’m here today with Jen Oliver, welcome Jennifer. Thank you so excited. Yeah, it’s great to have you on now I knew you way back in the day when you were at South Bay, right South Bay Credit Union in California, you made a little trip over to municipal and then back to the West Coast, and currently at the $1.24 billion Rize Credit Union, welcome, and why don’t you tell a little bit about yourself, and I know you guys also did a recent rebrand to talk a little bit about little bit about that as well. Sure, sure.
Jen Oliver 00:45
Well, thank you so much for having me. As you mentioned, I have an interesting background. I started at, well, I’ve been in credit unions for like, 30 plus years now, multiple credit unions, but, you know, I was really, really a part of $150 million credit union South Bay, 100 and $50 million asset size, South Bay credit union serving our South Bay community in LA and it has a wonderful credit union that did some amazing work in the beach cities communities. Then, I went to the Municipal Credit Union that was the largest conservatorship in the nation. And I was part of the conservatorship management team at that four and a half billion dollar credit union. And oh my gosh, Sarah, I’ll tell you what, what a way to reconnect with the roots of why we do the work that we’re doing it kind of, I mean, it’s one thing to do, a conservatorship, a conservatorship, you know, when they basically the NCUA comes in and says, Alright, we’re taking control of this organization, and they brought in their own team, and we were part of that team. Our job is to fix things very, very quickly and to bring the safety and soundness back to the organization. So you can imagine a credit union that size, there was a lot of work to do in those operations. But to add to that, it was during COVID. We had no idea this was going to happen. But you know, when you are saving a credit union for 600,000 of the first line of defense in New York City, ground zero for COVID. Boy, it gives you a whole another charge of what you’re doing and why you’re in this business and why you’re so passionate about the credit union movement. So flash forward, we did the conservatorship. We were able to give back the credit union to the members, which was a joyous day to really see that success play out and that really important financial institution survive for those for those wonderful people New York City. Flash forward, I came to then SCE Credit Union, we were just approaching a billion dollars, and that was in 2022 and we have been on a path of Journey to really, you know, not only survive, but thrive in this credit union world that we love so much. And so at SCE, we changed our name to Rizw Credit Union in June of last year. So we just it’s really only been less than a year since we’ve been Rize Credit Union, and it feels so natural. It’s such a great fit, you know, being part of the community that we serve, and so this has been truly a pleasure to reacquaint yourself with why this credit union exists and our brand is all around, why we exist and who we’re here to serve,
Sarah Cooke 03:55
as it should be. That’s awesome. So what were the differences that you saw? Was there anything that surprised you between $150 million credit union, a $4 billion credit union, one and a half billion or one a quarter billion dollar credit union? What are some of the differences, or things that kind of surprised you, or things that were the same?
Jen Oliver 04:15
Okay, so I’ll be honest with you, at the 100 and $50 million credit union, we had to be, we were forced to be super advanced in technology. We had to think different. We we did some different stuff in outsourcing. You know, smaller credit unions have a difficult time attracting talent just because, you know, a bigger credit union has different options and more options and more appealing, right? So those were, you know, some of the differences really was in the ability to attract amazing talent to the room when you’re a four and a half billion dollar credit and people know your name already, right? And and so when we put out a call, even in a conservatorship, which is really scary. Time for our credit union, right? We would put out a call for for leadership, and we’ve got some amazing people step up to become part of the team. And so you find that you don’t have to work as hard well, you still have to work hard, but you don’t have to work as hard to get good people in the room to help you move things forward in a great way. The the I’d say, more than the differences, were the things that were the same that I never expected. So from a strategic level, the skills I had already learned that being $150 million credit union, you know, you have to be kind of scrappy to be $150 million credit union and do a great job. And those skills really applied to having to be more scrappy in an environment that’s four and a half billion dollars that needed operational support, and so I had a lot of those direct skills really applied to being able to help us be successful at Municipal Credit Union. Credit Union. Same thing here, coming to this credit union, looking at at Rize, looking at what Rize needed to move forward strategically, was was still very similar to what other credit unions also are trying to solve for. You know, they can’t get the word out. They’re not great at telling the story. They may have lost connection with their members or their community, or they’re broadening their community how to how to really connect with that community. Those are the same, same, same problems we had. $150 million credit union, billion dollar credit union, four and a half billion dollar credit union. It’s all about the messaging and getting people to really connect with our mission,
Sarah Cooke 06:43
right? And the brand, of course, is a very big part of that. It’s not just a logo. It’s, it’s it’s, it rep. The logo represents who you are, but yeah, just being out in the community and all that kind of stuff, and you were talking about municipal and serving the front line of COVID, I didn’t even real, I didn’t realize it was during that time, because it’s been a few years, but, yeah, that’s huge. And obviously putting the brand out there as being supportive during that time, even when it was going through its own stuff, you know, it really shows what gradients are for, right? Yes, matter the size. So you’ve been an avid participant in the Mitchell Stankovic underground. What? Why? Why are you participating in it? What does it mean to you?
Jen Oliver 07:32
Well, you know, I participate in a big way. I believe in participating in our movement. You know, some things scare me a little bit in our movement. I It’s shrinking. I mean, that’s a fact, right? And, and so I’m always looking for the alliances by the village that helps me think better, think differently, think about how we can survive and and what I like about Mitchell Stankovic and the underground is it’s, it really was a different narrative, like it wasn’t your typical kind of conference talking about the typical things you know it there you’re, you’re encouraged to have, really, I don’t know just different. You’re encouraged to cuss, like in actual this last conference, we had to say bad words to see Bill Cheney say a bad word, right? It kind of floors you right? Yeah, you know it. And it’s not that we have to say bad words in order to make things happen. It’s that thinking differently and thinking with different boundaries allows you to open up your mind to different opportunities. And so I look forward to those types of of challenges to the status quo.
Sarah Cooke 08:54
Yep, yep. I love those too. You know, just trying to look at how we can help support smaller credit unions in different ways, for example. And so you’ve been a part of the underground cus working group now cus dammit is actually stands for credit union shared services. So tell us more about what y’all are doing?
Jen Oliver 09:20
Yeah, so I’ve been part of the working group for since day one, and I’d like to say as part of part of the idea around what we needed to do, because I’m very passionate about helping credit unions survive, and in coming from a small credit union, I realize how much support is needed and, and so, you know, we’re constantly looking for ways to to to provide the additional kinds of supports that that credit unions need. And and quite frankly, at a billion dollars, we’re small these days now too. And so. Um, it takes a it takes a different type of community focused on a larger, broader problem to come up with some great solutions. And so that’s why I decided to be part of that working group and bring my experiences both as a leader from a small credit union and a leader from a medium sized credit union, and somebody who had some experience at a at a larger credit union, to bring those experiences to the table so that we could, we could help create an a network that could really be effective. Yeah,
Sarah Cooke 10:33
it’s amazing what we call a medium sized credit union nowadays. When I started in 1999 it was probably like 120 million so was a mid sized credit union. So one of the things that your working group found was the largest hurdles for small credit unions, and probably we might have been able to guess this, but you know, technology, 44% said that was the biggest concern. Others said, education and compensation, those were kind of second and third, or tied for second, as far as hurdles, and then there were some others, including branding, like you can mentioned earlier. So it seems to me, I don’t know. Is the technology hurdle a lot bigger at a smaller credit union, or it seems like a lot of credit unions, regardless of the size, really can have difficulties keeping up. Yeah,
Jen Oliver 11:28
I think the state of our technology and our industry is, Look, I’m sorry, some of our systems are dated, and they kind of slave you to the system, and I don’t think that’s a great partnership, no matter how you look at it. So, you know, I think that in general, the technology can be a tremendous hurdle on how to solve for that, so that you don’t have to be reliant on necessarily one partner and or if you’re relying on one partner that that you’re getting the the most flexibility that you that you need, you know, a lot of what I believe in for credit unions is, you know, what makes them special? What is their niche? Right? What? That’s what makes them really special. But sometimes in these larger systems that kind of homogenize you like everybody’s gotta be the same. And how do you start to identify your new unique attributes in the way that you are supporting your membership and and I don’t know that all the systems are flexible enough to flexible enough to do that, and so technology can be a real big Hurd for that even, you know, I think we’ve all changed the way that we embrace FinTech partners in this ecosystem, but sometimes connecting to those FinTech partners can be very, very difficult as well. So even if you have a partner that has the right solution for your unique membership, you might not be able to roll it out because you don’t have necessarily the infrastructure or the connectivity, or the ability to be able to do that, or the knowledge to be able to necessarily tie those things together in a road map, or the financial constraints do that as well. So there’s lots of reasons, but technology can be a tremendous hurdle.
Sarah Cooke 13:17
Mm, hmm, and one of those service providers was down last Friday.
Jen Oliver 13:27
Massive, massive systems outdate. And that’s that is really, you know, it makes people feel less confident about their financial institution. And the bottom line is, is that we already have a reputation as credit unions of not having the latest technology. And then the whole system goes down, whether or not who’s a fault it was right. They use their system. They believe it on us, right? And
Sarah Cooke 13:50
so person in front of them, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Can make a little yellow brick road to the vendor anyway, so the working group produced this white paper that is available. I’ll put a link in the in the show notes, but the white paper, and one of the many, many things that came up in it, was cyber security and reputational risk. Because even though it is. It does tend to be like a smaller credit Well, it’s not a smaller credit issue, but the white paper itself is about supporting small credit unions. So, but even though each of these credit unions are small, it’s $80 billion in total assets. So it’s a huge strategic concern too. And regardless of the size, I would think, yeah,
Jen Oliver 14:41
Absolutely, and, and the reality is, hiring the right talent to be your champion of security and cyber. Cyber security at a small credit union is really, really hard. Now we can lean into partners, and there’s some amazing partners out there, but you. Know, how much of it do you actually have to be able to have internally in order to be able to do that? I think that the opportunity that cuss explores is fractional leadership in that way, because strategically, you know, you have all the credentials and the skills to be able to solve for a good, strong security system that can’t be it may not be 100% of every scenario possible, but you have the skills and capability to to pencil out a really strong environment. Well, you can now apply that skill to multiple credit unions, just as I was kind of alluding to earlier, when I went from a small credit union to a large credit union to a medium-sized credit union, a lot of the strategies I had experienced were very similar, and it gave me a confidence that says, You know what, these are big problems that credit unions need to solve and once I have that ability to solve for that problem, I can translate that to multiple organizations. And so this idea around this fractional leadership for hiring bats kind of skill base is really exciting.
Sarah Cooke 16:09
Yeah. I mean, I can’t, I can’t imagine what a CISO or a CTO or CIO gets paid these days, and for a small crane to be able to afford that, it just makes sense that they, you know, to share, I suppose, and that’s supposed to be what cranes are great at, too.
Jen Oliver 16:26
I mean, you think you you add on top of that, Sarah, how many of us have the same providers, the same loop, I guess, like not, maybe not loopholes, weaknesses in the system, or the same updates that have to be applied? It could literally be systematically applied to multiple organizations when you have that kind of setup. And I think that’s really powerful to be able to do that.
Sarah Cooke 16:48
Yeah. I mean, last year there was a simple patch that brought down a core, you
16:55
know, yes.
Sarah Cooke 16:57
So I love the idea of the shared services. It makes perfect sense for credit unions, especially the smaller ones. But I’m going to play devil’s advocate. Why not just merge instead? Why do we need these smaller credit unions?
Jen Oliver 17:09
Oh, gosh, because, because, you know, there’s, there’s a reason what we exist, and it’s usually something special about us. Let’s just say, you know, this is an easy example, fireman’s credit union, you know, when they started out there or the fire the their peer firemen, so they came together to help each other out. They knew the nuances of that industry. I think the things that make us really special and unique should be coveted. You know, I was just having a meeting with my business development team today, and I was saying, what was, what is special about Rize you know, we help invisible people become visible. We give them access knowledge and care that help them achieve lasting financial security. And that’s tremendous. I absolutely believe there’s a reason for us to exist, and if we’re gone, if we’re merged out, who is going to take care of those people, right? I have a special responsibility, and it’s what we do every day. And my team feels it that it’s their responsibility to help those invisible people become visible, right, to provide that access, and if in you know, is that cause going to be championed as you merge, maybe, but more than likely not, because you start to make decisions for a larger, broader base, going back to municipal, you know, municipal, four and a half billion dollars, 600,000 members, but they all had something in common. They were the first line of defense in New York City. And when, when the pandemic happened, they all had to go to work no matter what. The last thing they needed to worry about was their finances, right? And that so even, you know, a four and a half billion dollar credit union is very unique for the people that they were serving. And they know how to serve those, those first line of defense. Going back to the firemen we were talking about earlier, you know, in New York City, firemen are under the poverty line. Mm, it doesn’t always happen, by the way. If you go to different parts of the country, in different parts of the country, firemen are very well paid, and it is a premium job, but in New York City, it’s under when they start out, they’re under the poverty line, and so they need a different kind of level of support. So the things that help that are so unique about our credit unions, I think that’s what needs to be preserved in a big way. Size doesn’t necessarily gage that that’s going to be how you’re different and unique. But certainly, as you get larger and larger and larger, your your base gets wider and wider and wider, and it becomes more difficult to serve those, those niche communities, and it’s no longer necessarily your driving force. And so. I, I totally believe that we need to preserve as many credit unions as possible. Besides that, you know, who wants to be in a business that’s shrinking and dying like business that’s thriving and doing amazing work and and so, yeah, there’s, there’s multiple reasons why I want to make sure that we’re driving and thriving.
Sarah Cooke 20:18
Absolutely, I think credit unions are the best financial choice. We just need to tell people about it in part.
Jen Oliver 20:25
No way is that a secret donut like I can cuss on this god damn it.
Sarah Cooke 20:34
Yes, you are allowed. So, yeah, I love the idea of the fractionals, the and some of the things that were, I mean, a lot of it that was talked about, in addition to the fractional executives, was tech. We talked about tech. The one thing that I think is so touchy, and I think partly because of how everybody was raised back in the day, is the retirement plans or the lack of lack of retirement plans, especially at smaller credit unions, because they either can’t afford it, or the board doesn’t believe in it, or, you know, whatever the situation, the NCUA says you can’t afford it, whatever it is, and that is, I mean, that put, we’re putting Our own darn people into poverty after they retire.
Jen Oliver 21:22
Yeah, I have unfortunately heard many, many stories of that, especially on us. On the smaller the credit union, the harder it is for a credit union to to fund a SERP for a retirement program for their executive level. And the fact of the matter is, the smaller the credit union, the smaller the wages. And so when you’re looking at a small credit union, and their CEO is making $70,000 a year, and their credit unions never funded a SERP for them, how much can they really have for their retirement, right? And so So you literally see that they cannot afford to retire unless they unless they merge with another organization, right? And have a retirement kind of built in. That is a really, really sad thing. And what I loved about this program, the CUSP program was that it actually talked about that. It has been very taboo in our industry that, you know, I can tell you, when I was sitting in the at the 100 and $50 million size credit union, you know, why are my brothers and sisters, you know, selling their credit union? Mm, hmm, I honestly just hadn’t even thought about the fact that they had no retirement built up, or little retirement built up, and they have done that hard work every single day for decades. Yes, what was at the end of the road for them, and it was a real big realization for me, that that this is a problem that needs to be solved. I think some, for some it was a great incentive to merge. And I think that if we could solve for that a little bit, we could potentially keep some of those credit unions that are different and really special, that are serving a special niche that will be missed if they’re gone,
Sarah Cooke 23:18
right? And I want to be clear too, like, if a crane needs to merge because of financial issues, like it is not, you know, savable. Of course, that’s probably what’s best for the credit union, the members and the movement as a whole. But, you know, talking about, you know, it’s so hypocritical for a board to be like, Oh, we want to serve our members and provide financial wellness, and then you don’t provide financial wellness for your own people, especially the executive that got you where you are. So that’s that I’ll get off my soapbox now.
Jen Oliver 23:59
You know what? It’s reality, Sarah, that that isn’t talked about a lot in our solutions, and we see a ton of collaboration happening in a lot of different ways, from the credit union industry, but that’s been one that’s been kind of, yeah, yeah.
Sarah Cooke 24:13
It’s a great area to innovate into. A lot of people don’t consider non text of innovation, but we really could stand it and do that somehow make it more affordable. And so I was curious too. I don’t know if this makes sense or not, but I was wondering something like, cuss is that? Could that be in preparation for, like, open banking, would that lead there eventually?
Jen Oliver 24:45
Yeah, you know, it’s kind of hard to say, but I’d say that you’d be further ahead on the curve if you had a had a partner behind you, like a cusp, for example, that was kind of leading in that technology. Right? Could it be open banking? I suppose it could actually, depending on how open banking is embraced. But you know, open banking means your information is just getting aggregated out there somewhere, right? And, and that information is being shared in a different way. And, and I think that for for other for all the credit unions to participate in the benefits and protect themselves against any of the negatives, you really need a partner behind you that’s going to help, help lead in that area. So I do think there’s some opportunities there, but more, what I see is the ability to share services and and, you know, I’ve been a big advocate for this for a very, very long time as a small, creative outsource. I outsource my my my whole call center. I outsource my whole collections activity. I outsource my it. I outsource. I outsource everything that I could except for actually helping the members, because I want to outsource that. I want my people to be the face of the organization that understands the individual nuances of my individual member so, so where I really see the ability of the technology that kind of comes together is that it could create a pathway for us to share services, which is where you start to reduce your operating costs, because there’s a lot of things that should be unique to you. Your brand should be unique to you. Your marketing and curated content should be unique to your membership. You know, the words that you use, the way that you communicate to your members, should be unique to you, but who processes your drafts? I don’t think that has to be so unique, right, right? You know, even building an IT infrastructure does that have to be totally unique? No, the infrastructure itself doesn’t have to be unique. Some of your FinTech partners might be unique, but certainly not. The infrastructure that makes you nimble and able to adapt doesn’t need to be unique. So I think by creating this collaborative environment that we’re solving technology problems with will allow us to start to pull off what’s not unique about us, and maybe share in those services and solve for that, helping reduce operating costs, reduce labor costs. I don’t know about you, but like, I can tell you, coming from a small credit union, like I had to wear tons of different hats today. I’m a loan officer today, I’m doing collections. Today, I’m doing a teller work today, I had to do all those things because you just had to show up and do what you needed to do to fill the gaps right and and by allowing us to not have to worry about the technology and and some of these other shared service allows us to now be there for our members and to problem Solve in that way. And I think that that’s pretty empowering for credit union of any size and and I’ll say that too, because like when you look at the amount of money Chase spends on marketing and the amount of money that Chase spends on technology, we could never compete as an industry with that kind of dollar spend. So by coming together in these kind of tailored, shared resources, now we can be as powerful
Sarah Cooke 2 28:26
or hopefully, you know, hopefully, at least in the in the
Sarah Cooke 28:31
competitive range. Mm, hmm.
Sarah Cooke 28:34
And you know, there again, you still have that advantage of niching down to serve your particular members, the best way that anybody can. So there’s also been an increase in credit union applications, new credit union applications. That’s pretty exciting. And this part of that’s part of what cus is doing as well, is to help support the smaller credit they’re the new credit unions too.
Jen Oliver 29:02
Oh yeah, yeah. The hardest part about a new credit union is, well, first of all, like, where do you go? Like, you know, I need, I need every policy, procedure. I need every operational, you know, support. And then, by the way, I can’t spend a lot of money, and I have to grow a certain pick at a certain rate and put set aside capital, since the only way the credit unions can, you know, really fund capital is through earnings. And so how are you going to start earning on day one? Startups don’t earn on day one,
Jen Oliver 29:33
right? And so I work with a few for sure. Yeah, yeah. So,
Jen Oliver 29:37
so, you know, the environment that that cus can create is, you know, a village that helps you with what to do there first and again, that just leaves more resources for you to do the work that you need to do in order to have to truly, you know, create a strong, thriving organization to be a. To serve your unique niche. And so I think that the faster you have a village, the faster you have a trusted group of people that you can partner with, the better off you’re going to be
Sarah Cooke 30:09
absolutely makes perfect sense. Alrighty. Well, I always allow my guests the final thoughts. You could say anything you want to our credit union audience, what’s it?
Jen Oliver 30:19
What is that? Well, I never get opportunity cast, and it’s awkward to do it. It just cracks me up that, you know, when Susan said it’s gonna be called cuss, I was like, Really, so funny, because it’s a conversation starter. But anyhow,
Jen Oliver 30:39
you know, my, my last word is, you know, do whatever you can to help our industry not only survive, but to thrive. And that means, if you are a credit union that needs support, that you go and you find your support structure. If you are a credit union that can help, but you help support your structure, Rize is putting our, I guess, money where your mouth is. I don’t know. Whatever you, you say when you when you’re actually doing the work where we’re partnering with some of the partners that we’re vetting through the CUSP model, we’re also vetting through the Rize model. Because if I could apply some of that here to Rize, well, gosh, if I pick up a whole village with cuss to help, you know, facilitate some of these issues. You know, I think we’re we’ll be better
off as well.
So, you know, participate, you know, I think that’s the bottom line, is make sure that you’re participating in every possible way, whether you’re a small credit union or a large credit union or a medium-sized credit union, that you come into this network and you share your abilities, you share your strengths, and that you help others Also realize their fullest potential as well. Excellent.
Sarah Cooke 32:01
Thank you so much for your time today. Jennifer, I appreciate it.
Jen Oliver 32:05
It’s been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me. You.