“I don’t have enough to make my car payment, but my mom can help, so I’ll send her a loan request through Zirtue.”
When Dennis Cail said that during our latest episode of The Credit Union Connection, it immediately captured what makes his company so compelling. Who hasn’t been on one side of that conversation, either asking for a quick loan or hoping to quietly get paid back? Zirtue, the fintech Dennis co-founded, has turned that awkward family exchange into a seamless, automated process that pays bills directly and keeps relationships intact.
It’s smart, human and just the kind of innovation credit unions have been waiting for. In this episode, host Sarah Snell Cooke sits down with Dennis and Elizabeth McCluskey from TruStage Ventures Discovery Fund, which invested in Zirtue, to explore what happens when mission-driven fintech meets the community-first mindset of credit unions and how that partnership is rewriting the rules of financial inclusion.
Elizabeth explains how the Discovery Fund is intentionally backing underrepresented founders including women, people of color, LGBTQ+ entrepreneurs, and now veterans whose companies are redefining what financial access looks like. Zirtue, she says, was an early standout: a fintech built not around disruption for its own sake but around empathy, transparency, and trust.
For Dennis, a Navy veteran himself, TruStage’s new focus on veteran-led startups hits home. “Veterans make the biggest investment in America every day,” he says. “It’s only right others invest in them, too.”
Together, Dennis and Elizabeth paint a picture of what’s next for credit unions: partnerships that do more than modernize technology. They strengthen relationships with members before financial stress turns into crisis.
Because sometimes innovation isn’t about replacing what’s old. It’s about returning to what’s always worked, people helping people, just with better tools this time.
NOTE: AI is human, so it ain’t perfect. This transcript will have errors; it will receive its punishment later.
Sarah Cooke
Hello and welcome everybody. I am your host here at The Credit Union Connection. I’m here today with Dennis Cail and Elizabeth McCluskey,
Elizabeth McCluskey
welcome. Thanks for having us. Thank you.
Sarah Cooke
It’s great having you all, because you’re doing something really cool. Dennis, you’re with Zirtue and Elizabeth is with TruStage Ventures Discovery Fund. And why don’t we start with you, Elizabeth, talk a little bit about your role, and what true stage ventures Discovery Fund is about.
Elizabeth McCluskey
Yeah. So we are the venture arm of TruStage our parent company, which is an insurance and financial services company serving middle market consumers with affordable financial protection products. And the art the aim of our ventures arm is really to invest in and support promising and emerging FinTech companies that could either be partners for true stage as we think about distribution and diversification of our product set, and then also, very importantly, you know, that can be partners to the credit union ecosystem. I think true stage has a long history of working with credit unions and distributing our products through credit unions to their members, and we just see a continued need for credit unions to evolve and adopt fintech. But it’s it tends to be something like the landscape is is very complex and moving very quickly, so we find that partnerships are a great way for credit unions to adopt technology. And so we want to surface and invest in some of those promising fintechs and connect them to credit unions and help create, you know, these fruitful partnerships between fintechs and credit unions. And Dennis, obviously can share more about that, but Zirtue is a great example of one of our portfolio companies that I think really kind of lives into that.
Sarah Cooke
Recently the Discovery Fund is specifically for minorities, women, people who have historically been disadvantaged as far as getting investment funds into their startups. But you also recently added veterans, which Dennis says, also, Dennis, you go ahead, introduce yourself a little further, and the company.
Dennis Cail
Sure. Dennis Cail, Co-Founder, CEO here at Zirtue, we’re finTech platform. Our mission is to drive financial equity and inclusion, and we do that by simplifying loans between friends and family for bill pay purposes, and we automate the repayment process to kind of take the awkwardness out of it. And we partner with billers, including companies like AT&T, utility companies, healthcare providers as well. And so we’re really trying to meet people where the pain point is to help them keep their lights on, keep their car running, pay their rent, get access to health care. So very much, a mission driven business. And if you look at the data from the Federal Reserve Bank, Americans lend and borrow over $200 billion a year with each other. So virtue is really on a mission to try to help consumers unlock that $200 billion and by the way, that’s 200 billion 100 billion out of the $4 trillion that Americans pay in bills every year. So it’s really something that we’re using as an alternative payment method and true stage. Specifically, a Discovery Fund was one of their choose first investors, and we could not be more excited to have them as partners, and very excited about this new veteran initiative that they have going now.
Sarah Cooke
So yeah, and you know, it sounds like you just like you’re saving the paper shuffling, like me having to call my son and bang on his head, like, why aren’t you paying me back? But so I really want to get into that and how it actually works. But first I want to talk a little bit more broader perspective, as far as the disintegration of the primary financial institution, like there it barely exists anymore. Because not only I talked to somebody the other day about the posit side, but also on the payment side, obviously you can make pay my kids in Venmo, or when they want to borrow money, or they pay me back in, pay bail, whatever it is. And so like credit union, credit unions are can’t have the potential to be cut out of the system entirely. Can you talk a little bit about that, what you’re seeing and how you guys are trying to solve for that.
Dennis Cail
Yeah, for us at Zirtue. I mean, we’re really trying to help credit unions meet their members where, where the pain point is right. Because if you look at the data, 60% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck, and that same percentage cannot afford to pay a $400 unexpected expense. So that means that if and when a credit union member, that’s part of that data set that I just talked about, let’s say they have a flat tire on the way to work, they’re going to have to make a decision on if they’re going to get their tire fixed so they can get to work the next day or pay their light bill right and. Really Zirtue is an alternative payment method that’s really powered by friends and family, because credit union members can’t go into the credit union and get a bill pay loan, right? And so that’s really where friends and family come in and search you pay comes in to really help them unlock that value add versus value loss for their credit union members that are stressing and struggling at times, and we just really want to be there when they need, need that support. And by the way, that’s what credit unions are in the business of doing. And you know, Zirtue credit unions are all about members, all about the community. And you know, it’s just a really strong synergy for, you know, FinTech like to really partner up credit use to help them fulfill that need for their members.
Elizabeth McCluskey
I was just gonna say, I’m happy to add kind of the higher level perspective that we see from the ventures Fund, which is, you know, I think there was sort of this explosion of direct to consumer everything, and that applied to fintech as well, right where you could get everything, sort of from your phone, from your pocket, like access to funding, you know, access to your bank account. And I think fintechs obviously capitalized on that wave more quickly than some of the traditional banking and credit union providers did. So there was kind of a rush to that consumer wallet that FinTech sort of initially won. I think what we’re seeing now is some of the larger financial institutions and credit unions are saying, you know, we used to think fintechs were the enemy, but I think a certain subset of fintechs actually can be really great partners, and we can use the technology that fintechs have developed, along with that trusted relationship and community orientation that we have to actually deliver the best product and the best service to that consumer. But it really takes the partnership from those two, you know, the fintech and the credit union to deliver that, because the FinTech is bringing, oftentimes, the technology and able to stay kind of a pace with what the changes and the trends are, and the credit union has that foundational connection to the consumer. So as you said, you know, I think the consumer is overwhelmed right now, because they do have so many products with so many different partners and financial institutions. And like, I think people actually would love to have more of their checking account, saving account, investment account, credit card, you know, payment options within one place. I think we’re all kind of reaching this point of fatigue and overwhelm, but up until now there, there hasn’t been sort of a satisfactory option to get everything in one place. And I think that’s where we can start to help build that bridge where fintechs, working with credit unions can deliver a superior kind of member experience and member offering,
Sarah Cooke
right, right, as you mentioned, kind of credit unions fell behind. They were always leading in that member service. And when technology became so much more important, as if it weren’t already during covid, you know, their member satisfaction dipped a little. And so by bringing the fintechs and the credit unions together like you all are, it really helps the credit unions to have that Tech Foundation without having to build it themselves, for sure. And so, yeah, I mean, while credit unions are 100 years old, friends and family are the biggest lenders. So explain to me a little bit how Zirtue works. Like, between, like, I’m lending my son money to make his car payment this month. How’s that gonna work? And how do I collect my money?
Dennis Cail
Yeah, so, so a couple things there. Sarah, so first and foremost, before you can make a loan request on Zirtue, you are required to link your bank account and your debit card to your Zirtue profile, and so and you’re agreeing that Zirtue is going to draft your account, your credit union account, or and your debit card every month based on the terms that you’ve set with your friends. And so it’s important to note that these are zero interest rate loans between friends and family, they’re setting their own terms. I need $400 to pay my car payment, or my credit score is going to get dinged, or I’m going to get sent to collections, or, even worse, my car is going to get repossessed, right? And so I don’t have enough on my credit union account. I don’t have enough on my credit card to make this payment, but you know, my mom, Sarah, is more than willing to help me out in a responsible way. So I’m going to send her a loan request through Zirtue. I’m going to link that credit union, you know, to that loan request, and once my mom approves that loan, instead of the money going to your son, Zirtue sends those funds directly to the credit union same day, and 30 days later, we start drafting your son’s account based on the payment terms that you’ve set together. And so that’s really how Zirtue works, out of the box, to kind of meet people where the pain point is. And again, you know. With Americans borrowing over $200 billion a year, that actually makes them one of the biggest banks in the world. So we’re just trying to meet people where the pain point is,
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Elizabeth, did you have anything you wanted to add to that?
Elizabeth McCluskey
I mean, I think we saw, you know, just kind of reflecting on the history with starchy we saw Dennis’s vision early on, and we were excited about, you know, the partnerships and the traction he had with some of the sort of more utility providers of the world. And we saw that there was an opportunity to apply that in the credit union space as well, because there’s certainly plenty of places where people are making payments to their credit unions, whether that’s auto loans or personal loans or what have you. So I think it was just a great example of, you know, a technology that was out there in the world serving other segments of the market that we thought could really be beneficial to credit unions and their members as well.
Sarah Cooke
And how to, how do, how do you see it benefiting credit unions? Why did you decide to invest on behalf, I won’t say, on behalf of credit unions, but it sort of is.
Elizabeth McCluskey
Yeah, I think credit unions are really searching for ways that they can serve the needs of their members and meet them where they are. And I think, as Dennis has highlighted like this, lending between friends and family is something that has happened and that is happening and will continue to happen. And so how can credit unions, you know, really sort of formalize that as a payment option for people when they need it most and when they need that lifeline? How can they turn to their friend and family again most easily, like providing that as a truly convenient option where they don’t feel sort of stigma around it, or they don’t feel, you know, that there’s a lack of transparency. It’s like this is a sort of credit union validated option, and that they support the member in using that as a tool in their repayment toolbox.
Sarah Cooke
And so I can’t charge him 20% interest, huh? But Yeah, seriously though the having a promissory note, I saw that you guys have promissory notes. That makes me if I were borrowing from my parents, which hopefully I don’t do anymore. You know, that makes a little scary for me. I don’t know what is the consumer feedback on that?
Dennis Cail
I think consumers are fine with it. I mean, because we do, you know, it is a digital promissory note, we keep a digital paper trail of how much is owed, how much has been paid. But if you think about it, from sort of the three pillars, which is the borrower who’s or the member who’s trying to get from one bill to the next or one paycheck to the next without paying a 400% interest rate to a payday lender, then you have that lender, that family member or friend that wants to provide that financial lifeline, but do it in a more responsible way. And that’s really where Zirtue Pay comes in, because we bake in that bill pay transparency, so as a friend or family member, you know exactly where those funds are going, where that money is going.
Sarah Cooke
So that’s Friday night pizza, right?
Dennis Cail
That’s exactly right. And so we get really positive feedback, especially from lenders, family member and friends that are helping other family members and friends out that that’s one of the biggest value adds for Zirtue is the fact that they know where the money is going, there’s an automatic repayment so they don’t have to ruin Thanksgiving or holidays by asking for their money. You know, Zirtue is already doing that in the background. And then I think, last but not least, you have that biller or that credit union that’s looking to collect those funds or get on time payments. And that’s really where Zirtue comes in as an alternative payment option to help them avoid those late fees and those collection fees and things like that, and really, ultimately, at the end of the day, create a better member experience. Because, you know, we know the last thing credit unions want to do is Ding a member’s credit score or send them to collections. So that’s where search you pay. And really, you know, I love the fact that Discovery Fund true stage have been very intentional, not just about investing in high potential, high impact companies like Zirtue, but really, you know, the first thing they think about is, how can this benefit the credit unions? Right? And so all those things have to come together. And I think that that’s going to prove to be even more beneficial as the fund gets more intentional about investing in veterans.
Sarah Cooke
So, yeah, and so, I mean, I see how, I mean, you guys have to get paid somehow. I’m sure that the credit unions are the ones paying you, especially on a 0% loan.
Dennis Cail
Actually, no. So the credit union, they don’t pay at all. So it’s free for all fillers, actually. So Zirtue, we get our fees from the lender on the front end. So if it’s $100 loan search, you charges a 5% service fee. And, and really, you know? So the total loan is $105 we sent $100 to the credit union, and then we retain the $5 and that’s how we make money.
Sarah Cooke
Okay, yeah, that definitely that makes sense. So, yeah, what I was also thinking though the RO about the ROI on this time savings in collections too. I mean, that’s a lot of time spent often not collecting stuff. So, yeah, that’s a huge ROI as well. Elizabeth, you have any other thoughts on that? Yeah?
Elizabeth McCluskey
Well, just to go back to what you said about the promissory note feeling sort of like formal and intimidating. I think that’s, I think that’s, you know, a genuine reaction, but it’s an interesting one, because consumers are signing their lives away, like multiple times a day, whether it’s opening a new credit card or doing a buy now, pay later plan. You know, there’s a lot of fine print that consumers are probably signing themselves up for and not necessarily reading where the counterparty is not their friend or family. So I think it’s actually there might be a little bit of consumer education that’s required, but I think signing a promissory note to your mom or to your sister is a much better proposition than signing one to a payday lender or to some sort of predatory lender who you know can start to garnish wages and, like, who knows what? You know what you’re signing up for when you’re actually filling out one of those loan applications? So, yeah, I think there’s probably some education required. But you know, if I had my choice, that’s the number one person I would want to be signing a promissory note from?
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, yeah. I don’t know my mother.
Dennis Cail
I think the other thing to add to that too, to what Elizabeth just mentioned, Sarah, is that the other benefit of Zirtue, you know, that these are truly a relationship based loans, right? So we don’t check credit scores or any of that you know. We do verify, and do KYC and AML to verify everyone is who they say they are, but search use one of the only platforms where we give the lender the option to forgive the loan as well. And so I was just gonna ask, I can’t walk into my credit union and say, Hey, will you forgive my car loan? It just doesn’t happen. And just to be able to extend that value or that benefit, and we do look at search you pay as a benefit for members, and I think that’s something that you know, we’re working more and more to get credit unions on board with that,
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, and keeping members engaged, especially the younger members Who are going to be using.
Elizabeth McCluskey
Sarah when you talked about your second point around sort of reducing collections, times and burden, I think as we are continuing to see the Financial Services landscape evolve, I mean, I think again, relative to other areas of people’s lives, there’s so much sort of anticipation of what consumers and Customers and members are going to need, and I think that’s where credit unions hopefully are going to win, and other financial institutions are trying to do this too. Is right, certainly, when a member has a need and they’ve identified that need or raised their hand for help, you definitely want to be there to help them at that moment, but you also want to increasingly anticipate before they have that need, right? And so, you know, before somebody goes into collections, giving them those options, that two or three different ways to pay, that might be able to help them before they get into a situation, which, as we know, you know, once you kind of enter into some of those spirals, it’s increasingly more difficult to get yourself out of them. And so I think, however, credit unions can leverage technology to understand their members better and to serve them options. You know, as they see that there is an incoming need, I think again, will really win that member loyalty and help them sort of protect their financial health in the future.
Sarah Cooke
And with the time save as the credit unions can spend the time educating the members on, you know what it really means to borrow, and the other places aren’t going to be so nice as to forgive your loan. So as I wrap up, I always allow my guests the final thoughts, Elizabeth, I want to start with you. What are your what do you want to leave our credit union audience with today? Well,
Elizabeth McCluskey
I think, as Dennis has touched on a couple times, you know, we started the Discovery Fund to invest in underrepresented founders and fintech that originally definition included women, people of color and LGBTQ CEOs, and we recently expanded that to include veterans. So Dennis now kind of retroactively qualifies under an additional criteria, but we’re really proud to have to have Zirtue, as you know, the technically, the first veteran found in business that we supported, and to have seen their trajectory, and being able to, you know, support them through the ventures fund, has just been an incredible kind of progression of our relationship. And so we’re really excited to find the next virtues and to find the other veteran founded. And businesses that are out there, because we know they face some of the same long odds that some of the other underrepresented founders we’ve been supporting face. So even though they’re more likely to be business owners and to start their own companies, they just continue to have sort of less representation from a VC funding perspective. And I think we take our role very seriously as being some of that catalytic first capital into what we see as these promising fintech companies that can serve the next generation of consumers. So just, you know, a call to the credit unions out there if you’re coming across promising veteran founders, we would love to meet them and see if there’s an opportunity to work together.
Sarah Cooke
And Dennis, I’m going to make your final thoughts. Two final thoughts. First, I want to ask you about the meaning for you of true stage true stage ventures, Discovery Fund, extending that to veterans. And then also, what you want to leave the credit audience with?
Dennis Cail
yeah, I think, just to add to what Elizabeth said, I think first of all, the Discovery Fund has just been, from my vantage point, really good at picking companies that have high growth potential and high impact potential. And I don’t think there’s probably anyone more qualified to sort of add this type of initiative, a program, you know, to their fund and so that being said too, as a veteran, I’m a Navy veteran, so I have a bit of a bias here, but I just think that veterans who make the biggest investment in America every day really do deserve folks being intentional about making investments in them. And I think this is where the extension of the Discovery Fund is really going to prove to be high value add, you know, just in terms of high IRR and return on investment, but also just give a lot of veterans an opportunity to get their businesses to market and growth and everything else, especially if and when they have something that really caters to the credit unions, which I’m sure there are a lot of veteran entrepreneurs out there who actually have something like that. So I actually happen to think that veterans are a good investment, and so I give a lot of kudos to Elizabeth, for her, for her leadership on this and TruStage, really, for leaning into veterans the way that they are. And hopefully other VCs and other firms will follow suit. So big fan of what they’re doing and can’t wait to see what happens next on it so, and I would just say to the credit unions, as these veterans start to come through the pipeline from the Discovery Fund, please, please, please take time to meet with them and get to know their businesses and get to know those veterans and those founders, to figure out how you can work with them, because I think it’s very much mission aligned with what all credit unions do, Whether it’s a credit union like Penn fed or Navy Federal that specifically caters to veterans, but a lot of these credit unions have veterans living in their community, and so I think it’s really, I think there’s a responsibility on all credit unions to sort of help true stage in The Discovery Fund, lean into this in a meaningful way.
Sarah Cooke
Awesome, absolutely least we can do. Thank you very much for your time and your service. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time.
Elizabeth McCluskey
thank you. Thanks for having us. Sarah, bye.