“Over half their members don’t feel there’s any relationship with their credit union.”
When Mac Thompson said that to Sarah Snell Cooke on The Credit Union Connection, it landed heavier than any statistic about ROA or loan growth ever could. Because if credit unions were built on relationship, what happens when members don’t feel one?
Mac, CEO of White Clay and a former big-bank executive, has spent decades building analytics and tools designed to level the playing field for community institutions. But this conversation is not about dashboards or data warehouses. It is about something more uncomfortable: the gap between what financial institutions say they are and what members actually experience. And once that gap opens, profitability, growth, even relevance start to drift with it.
What makes this interview compelling is how he reframes profit in a not-for-profit industry. For years, “profit” and “sales” were taboo in credit union circles. If you are deploying capital into commercial lending, pricing deposits and managing interest rate risk, someone is subsidizing others if you do not understand profitability at a deeper level. The question becomes whether you are aligning profit with member value.
Credit unions (and every other business) are chasing AI, automation and myriad digital upgrades. We become overly focused on the tech rather than providing true member value. Most consumers do not feel their financial institution has a relationship with them, according to Mac. That tension runs through the entire interview. Are we building better experiences, or just faster processes? Are we empowering front-line teams, or overwhelming them with reports and dashboards that do not translate into human conversations?
Mac also goes straight at credit unions’ other dirty word: sales. Understanding what a 22-year-old actually needs versus what a product sheet says they should have. Guiding a member through their first 90 days after opening a checking account, instead of treating account opening as the finish line. That primary operating account is the real battleground. Get that right, and you likely earn a decade-long relationship. Miss it, and you become the secondary institution with a great car loan rate and no loyalty.
Throughout the discussion, what stands out is Mac’s optimism. He believes the industry can continue to thrive. The tools exist. And, AI can become second nature. He believes that the people working in credit unions genuinely want to help members and just need better alignment, development and focus.
If you care about where relationship banking is actually headed, it is worth hearing the full conversation unfold in his own words.
NOTE: If the AI that spewed out this transcript were a chef, we’d all be eating cereal for dinner.
Sarah Cooke
Hello. Welcome everyone. I am Sarah Snell Cooke. I am your host at The Credit Union Connection. I’m joined today by Mac Thompson. Welcome.
Mac Thompson
Hello
Sarah Cooke
Great to have you Mac. He is the CEO at White Clay. So tell us a little bit of background on yourself, as well as the company.
Mac Thompson
All right, I originally started on the banking side, so I worked for a company called Bank One, which came became part of Chase that’s straight out of college from the early 90s. Worked there in a whole variety of different roles. Did a dot com left there about after eight or so years. Did a dot com in the middle, and then I worked for Bank of America for a while, and I ran very involved with consumer analytics, very involved understanding how people work on that side of the equation. And I had worked for two giant banks, and one of the things I thought would be an opportunity was take some of the built a lot of information technology while we were there analytics of ways how to help the shareholder and how to help the customer. And when we left, we basically, as me, a couple of my folks that worked with me at Bank of America, we were really leaving so we could build those tools and make them available for smaller regional community banks and credit unions, because I thought it was, it was important that everyone be able to compete, have the same kind of information so they can be competitive. And that’s where we started, sort of white clay, about 20 years ago, we been growing ever since we have our smallest client is about three 50 million. Our largest is 300 billion, so we have a quite a range. And what we do is we help our clients build deeper, more profitable relationships, and credit unions more profitable is probably more about more equitable, to make sure that certain members aren’t being subsidized by other members and people being treated equitably. It’s not quite the same shareholder equation, but as we do, both so very excited about how to help credit unions succeed.
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, that’s great to help level the playing field, bring the technology to the smaller organizations love it, and so the profit among in the credit union space, the conversation around profitability has changed from completely taboo, it seemed like when I started to kind of commonplace. Now, what are your thoughts on, on that shift and good, bad and different?
Mac Thompson
Yeah, I think you’re right. I mean, even, I would say even 10 years ago, maybe five and even for some now, when the credit unions, when the member base was a much more homogeneous types of populations, a lot of indirect car loans, a lot of checking, but they’re very similar kinds of consumers. It probably wasn’t as relevant. But as the credit unions have gotten into more commercial side, or lending to non it gets really interesting, because if you’re going to begin taking the credit the credit union’s capital liquidity and making commercial loans from that, you need to make sure that the consumer side of the membership isn’t subsidizing the business side of the membership, because everybody gets to participate as members in the profitability. So it’s why it’s becoming a lot more important. The other is on the bigger picture, on the interest rate risk, on the credit risks, on the overall balance sheet optimization for the company to understand profitability, particularly at a product level, more in the consumer space, or account, you know, a checking account, loan accounts, that kind of thing, and in the commercial state at a relationship level, to be able to price loans and deposits effectively is really critical to running your credit union in a most effective way to get deliver the most value for your members, but also the most return. But yeah, 100% agree. I mean, I used to when I first walked into credit union, by about 15 years ago, and one I misplaced all the language, so it’s completely wrong. But profitability, they’re like, We don’t care about profit. It was, I think, literally what the person said. And I think you do. I think you care about it differently than you would if you were at a bank, which is 100% appropriate, but I didn’t have a full appreciation of it at first. It took me a while to learn that, and that’s what credit unions are. They were born to serve particular needs, and I think that they’ve done that very well, and I think they’re evolving because the world’s changing around us, not just banks, but the FinTech competitive coming in to serve credit union members in ways that probably weren’t there 10 years ago.
Sarah Cooke
Yeah. And one of the things I love reminding people is credit unions are not a nonprofit. They are a not for profit. You’re for service, but you still want to keep the lights on, and like you said, give a great return to the members. And you guys did a recent survey on profit of. Day. In fact, can you talk a little bit about what you found out there?
Mac Thompson
Well, what we were really were looking at more is how do members and we looked at credit unions, we looked at FinTech, we looked at banks, beauty banks, small regionals, large regionals, giant banks. And we really wanted to understand how they felt about the relationship with their financial institution, and what we found was, in general, about 60. Let’s just round it, 65% of consumers don’t feel the bank really has a relationship with them. I mean, banking talks, banking credit unions, always talk about relationships, but the actual members and clients don’t really necessarily feel that way about it. I think it’s a huge challenge, because we credit unions, particularly, were created to serve members in the membership. It should be membership centric, and while the credit union number, I’m doing it off top my head, but the credit union number was better. It was maybe 55% don’t have that relationship, so it’s better than the average, but it’s that number should be a hell of a lot better, I think. And I think credit unions would be upset to under here that think that over half their members don’t feel that there’s any relationship with their credit union. That’s the at the essence of what credit unions are around. And I think that that’s a huge opportunity. And part of it is we got lost in this technology race. And that’s just not credit unions, that’s all that’s all these, the banks, the FinTech, everybody is chasing the technology, and they forgot that. You know, banking is really two kinds of things. There’s technology moving the zeros and ones around, and then there’s people, and there’s people, and it’s their money, and the people side of this is really emotional. I think, as a industry, we’ve gotten kind of lost in focusing on that technology, but which is cool and exciting. And you can talk about AI, you can talk about all these mobile and phones and watches all kinds of stuff. It’s still people’s money, and when they have a life event, when they have an issue or when they have concern, there needs to be a human part of the experience which can be delivered via all these really cool technologies we have, but those technologies need to be built around a process and people that deliver that human experience to people so they can be know that my credit union is my trusted financial advisor, and they’re going to be there to help me through my journey in life, to help me get to whatever I want to get to. I think it’s broader than credit unions. I think that’s entire financial industry I’m very passionate about that. It’s one of the reasons I said banking is I never planned on it, getting into the financial services field. I was into other things, but then I realized how much banking is critical to helping people achieve what they want to achieve. And so that opportunity exists, you know, every day for us, people in the credit union space and other places,
Sarah Cooke
Yeah, that’s one thing, and people in financial services often miss is that there is a very emotional tie to people’s money, you know, like, am I going to be able to retire? Am I going to be able to pay my bill next week? You know, for the whole gamut of emotions around that.
Mac Thompson
You run a small business, how am I going to make payroll for my team? You know, I’ve got a fraud issue. You know, it may sound like $5,000 which may not be a huge amount to the credit union, but to my to my member, it may be huge. You might be able to making payroll and not making payroll. And it’s so sensitive. I mean, you know, we’ve done a lot I do. We do a lot of market research here too. So over the years, you know, we ask the small businesses where, where does banking prioritize in your day? And what most of them say is, it shouldn’t be something I have to prior. It’s not something high on my day, because it just happens. It’s like, you know, your body, your hypothalamus, kind of functions as long as everything’s running the way it’s supposed to be running, awesome, because when it is the top my priority list, I’ve either had a life event or business event, or I’ve got a I’ve got a some sort of fraud, some sort of problem that’s critical to me getting through my day. And those aren’t usually great experiences, but the people that can help them get through that in a way that is the best path through that, I think have a real opportunity, because I think we’re commoditized in many ways, the technology elements of this. I think we’re all playing catch up to the big four over FinTech people, right? But that’s kind of all in the same ballpark, right? I mean, you know, Chase comes up with something, it’ll be available for most of our tools within six months. So it’s not like they have an insurmountable lead. And you know, frankly, and people don’t want to switch. I mean switching, switching checking accounts right now is just crazy, because of all the intertide, auto deposits, auto payments, ACHs and everything else you. If you can get that human relationship built, deliver, use all this wonderful technology, deliver this great experience, I think you’re gonna have a real advantage. Yeah, I think it’s what credit unions particularly, that’s why you exist, is your members.
Sarah Cooke
Well, yeah, I kind of want to ask you two questions at once, but I’ll be patient with myself. So, you know, you danced around this a little bit, but the relationship banking has been around for a long time, in person or over the phone with humans on the other side. How has it changed as digital has become more of a priority?
Mac Thompson
So I’ll give you where it places. It exists really well currently. And I’ll pick on I know some I go into the commercial banking space, because if you go to commercial banking, so where your relationship managers or private banking, and some of these exist in credit unions, some do, mostly know, though, they have a really high touch kind of thing that those cases. You know, it’s like me personally. I know my relationship manager at the bank. I have a cell phone, and I can call him any given time, and I have a pretty good, pretty good he’s gonna call me back within an hour, because he knows if I call him, there’s something I need, I need. So there’s areas where exist, where the bank, we’re banking and credit unions and just financial services got, kind of got, is that we started using this technology to try to automate things that we were doing. We were trying to push people out of branches. And there’s a lot of reasons for that, and there’s lots of good consumer reasons for that, right? I don’t know if anyone that loved coming in on Fridays, standing in line for an hour so you could cash your check, so you could get cash that you could walk Yeah, it just that doesn’t exist. I mean, there’s people out there right now going, What are you talking about, right? I mean, it’s checks. There’s people now that really don’t understand what checks are. So I think we’re where the where we got kind of lost in that was we began chasing cost savings and automation. We thought more technical, faster, less costly, was better, but I think we’ve invented more complexity. I mean, think about the prior to ATMs. You know, when we banking industry created ATMs, they thought, we’re going to take all this volume out of the branches and we’re going to put them in these automated teller machines, and this is going to really reduce costs. All we really did was add a bunch of ATM costs and increase the number of transactions people did because it was super convenient, right? People loved it, but they used it. The consumers used it in ways kind of different than we intended. They didn’t reduce the brands. They did a little bit. But I guess what I’m trying to say is that, is that we kind of got lost on activities and technology upgrades and our internally oriented processes that we’re running. We’re so busy. And this isn’t just this isn’t just banking, this is lots of places that we’ve gotten so internally oriented on things inside of our various companies that we have lost focus, that that person coming through the door, that person coming through the chat, that person coming through wherever they’re why we exist, and that customer member centric is kind of lost. And that’s just, I think, and I think technology allows you to hide from that and pretend it’s not that case. Oh, it’s because now they’re just all digital. They’re the same people, and their experience is one that we as industry is designed to deliver. Why can’t we make that experience better, more human, more empathy. And it’s not saying we’re changing credit scores, by the way, some people are out there, right? But you gotta underwrite. That’s fine. What I’m saying is, though, is we design it to make sure that we are empathetic to our members, and we understand they’re in their life journey, and our goal is to help them get there. And I think that gets lost because we come in. I mean, I did this this morning, I had a long list of stuff. Two thirds of it had nothing to do with any of our clients. And I think that, to answer your question broadly, I think at the root that’s we have become very internally fixated in general. And I think we just need to pivot a little bit. Those things are important, but the members are more important. Your clients are more important.
Sarah Cooke
Yes, no, I love it. I’m being a small business. I understand exactly what you’re saying. So, yeah. So um, aside from profitability, the other dirty word in credit unions was, was always sales, cross selling, upselling. But really, that is relationship banking. It is not being all friendly to them. I mean, there’s that too, but,
Mac Thompson
yeah, as long as you have product pushing, I think a lot of times, and this is technology has actually created a lot of this, because people want the next logical product. Do they want something to tell them of a product to push? Because they’re the sales quote. Really should be about talking to the customer, the member, and having a conversation about what it is that they really need to help them achieve what they want. And I love times, a term I use differently is member activation, because I like activating the members in a way that works for them. And I don’t like to say we’ve got to go sell 2000 savings or $20 million worth of money market accounts this month. I understand from a product management perspective, that’s what you say. I understand from an Alco asset liability committee perspective. Got all that. But from a consumer, you’re like, why are you just trying to product push me on a thing? Do you want to have a conversation about where I’m at and what makes most more sense to me? There’s a challenge in two parts of that. One, are you open to having the conversation with him? Because most people in the credit union really don’t want to have that conversation. It has to do with number two, they’re not really prepared for that conversation. You know, one of the big banks I work for, we rolled out a new mortgage technology. This is 20 years ago, so this is back in the mortgage boom of that time, and it was about getting the mortgage process, you could get underwritten and approved, and the time it took you to go, leave, get a cup of coffee and come back, they nicknamed a cup of coffee. They rolled it out to the test markets and everything, and everything, and it wasn’t doing well. And they’re trying to figure out why most people that worked in the branches had never been through a mortgage process because they didn’t own a home, and so the people that built it thought that was assumed. People understood what points were and understood what closing costs were, and understood and the reality of it was folks in the branch that’s not it wasn’t their reality and positive spending all this. The guy that was running the project created the project in about four hours in the field. When they were testing it, realized all that and said, Okay, stop. We’re gonna pause this. We’ve got to go back and rethink how we educate. They call them associates on how to execute this thing, but they missed the humanity of what they were the process they were trying to deliver, at least from the associate side in that case. And these are, it is amazing to me how much time we do a lot of right? We’re a software company. We do a lot of it work. We work with a lot of financial services. It groups. The amount of time we spend on the technical piece of projects is high. The amount of time we spend on the process and people part of projects is extremely low. And I think that’s a general gap. That’s not just us, that’s everybody, because the people part it’s hard. It is, yes, yeah, getting someone that has muscle memory, because they’ve been doing something for 10 years, to start doing something different. That’s, that’s a challenge. It can be extremely rewarding, you know, but a lot of times it’s done with the stick. I’ll just that’s one instead of a carrot. And there is, that’s a shame, so. But that changed management of the people, the people, the human capital. I’m gonna jump over the human capital development aspects of all these things are massive. It’s actually probably the human capital deficit and credit unions is probably the largest. It’s even bigger than technical deficit. They haven’t spent the time to educate the work the team, to be able to deliver that service and the need and be able to deliver what the membership needs. It’s not to beat up on them. You don’t need to replace them. Let’s just talk, figure out a game plan, how to start making those investments, because you’re going to solve any people you know, when we implement a lot of times our solution, it’s a culture change. More I mean, it’s just we move them from a management by gut to a management by fat kind of world. And the biggest part of that, I said, Look, I got the technology, I get the data, line the technology up. You’ll have all that. And, you know, smaller credit union, you know, sub 5,000,000,090 days, your culture will be able to simulate most of what we do for three years. Because I gotta work. I gotta guide them through that, that change process of, how do you use these things that you’re not familiar with? How do you activate new members? You know, it’s because right now sales, which is a dirty word, but strangely, I think most credit unions use it because they try to sell products or accounts to members, and they usually have goals and they’re in their incentive plan. They get paid by each one they sell. But is that really aligning the credit union’s interest with member interest, or is it just we’re pushing widgets? Yeah, myself in trouble saying these things.
Sarah Cooke
By the way, you’re absolutely right. My daughter not in banking, but works in retail, and they have to have a quota of so many credit cards given up, so many warranties given out. And I’m sure it’s very similar to what you’re talking about. And but, but instead of pushing products, listen to what the members say and provide a solution to it, and that helps with the relationship, I’m guessing, is kind
Mac Thompson
But they need on the on the flip side, to the back, to the team members in the credit union, yeah, they need some tools to be able to help organize all this for them. I mean, we are, from an IT perspective, we are throwing massive amounts of raw data, volumes of stuff that we, some people, call intelligence, at these members, and they can’t process all that. I mean, what are you going to do with an Excel spreadsheet with 4000 lines, and if you work in a branch that is not going to help me, and you sending me 65 reports on something I need to do that’s not going to help me. So what we this is, this is on the what we’re on the list we were talking about, I was going to talk about anyway. I think that the trick a lot of AI tools are basically being built that if you ask questions, it gives you answers. I think the next generation of this is more the concierge or guided intelligent experience, which uses AI to solve some of these things, but the end user isn’t having to interact and ask questions. They’re basically being guided. It’s like you have a person with you that’s kind of helping you through all of this, because if they’re a person in the branch, they don’t need to know the 40 questions that they should be asking. It should be someone prioritizes all that and go for you. Here’s the five things you need to know for the week, and here’s the members what you need to do. And that is that’s hard, but I think a lot of the AI tools and a lot of the reporting tools I’ve seen recently, they’re really putting a lot of the burden. They’re treating they’re treating the people that work with clients like their backroom analyst. I was a backroom analyst. Most people in the front line don’t think like I do, and that’s probably a wonderful thing, so, but they just want to be able I’ll say this. This is just something general and banking that I learned this about three years in a long time ago, generally speaking, why people work at banks or credit unions is they love helping people. And I didn’t quite understand that, and I spent a bunch of time in the branches, and I came to I was like, why are these folks here? They could go, probably make more money somewhere else. They could go do other things, but why? Where they got energy is when customers were members, were able to come in, they were able to help them, and fundamentally, that’s why they’re there. So how do you align that fundamental desire give them the appropriate tools and help them with members. I think these things are solvable. That’s why I’m super excited and optimistic about our industry. I just think we’re going to have to kind of refocus what we’re because I think we’re chasing silver bullets, like I’m going to go higher buy this piece of technology, and magically, my credit union is going to do all of these things. And you’re like, No, because people are crazy. Members are a bit crazy, right? They act irrationally to us, and they’re not irrational to themselves. But in you know, this thing, how boring everything would be is everyone thought like a, you know, banker, credit union team member, right? We, we’re more analytical, more rational in our own minds, right? If it’s rational, but a point being is the world out there is kind of complicated, and they don’t, don’t think like we do. You know, I know credit unions don’t have a lot of over drafting, but, you know, I had one time I did a focus group of people who over drafted more than 50 times a month. They didn’t pay, necessarily, pay 50 overdrafts a month, but they over drafted 50 times a month. These are consumers, and that was so irrational to me. I it took me a while to even wrap my head around how is this possible? Now, if someone didn’t have the money I got that part, I understand that part. These folks all this is 15 years ago, all six figures all making quite a bit of cash, and they basically said the daily accounting is something that’s something they really despise. They have a lifestyle and a culture they want to live, and that’s what it is. If it ends up costing them $5,000 a year in fees, so be it. But don’t call me when I overdraft. All you’re doing is challenging my way of living, and I know it’s not the same as yours, but don’t call me. And it’s not saying everyone that overdressed you shouldn’t call. There are people that overdress you should help educate and those things, but some of these folks, that’s their choice. They make it knowingly, and what they really want to do is transact the way they want to transact. And I know it’s a reason. I’m pointing it out is, yeah, we have to deal with people that have their lives going on. Life happens, and life is complicated and challenging at times, and great at times. But one of the coolest things we have is an industry, is we deal with what, 95% of all people in America, right on a daily, hourly basis, in one way or another, we’re very much a part of their lives. And I think we rethought the question of, how do we use all of this to help those folks achieve what they want? It’s a piece. I think we’re getting a lot. We’re doing. Have lots of stuff on the tech side. I think the people side, the process side, needs some help. Yeah, just went off on a complete tangent.
Sarah Cooke
You’re all good. It would be me if I let myself, trust me. So can you talk a little bit about how relationship banking helps, helps to boost profitability, and some of the results you’ve seen from that?
Mac Thompson
Oh, number one correlative metric to profitability. Do you have a member’s primary operating account? I want to use general terms. Do you have a client’s primary transacting checking account? Right? Do you have the place where they’re doing everything? Because if you do, you’re probably their credit union or their bank. If you don’t, when someone asks them, who’s your credit union, it’s or bank, it’s someone else, and over half the time it’s someone else, which is not great, especially the in the community banking space and the credit union space share this. They, many times, are becoming secondary financial institutions. So they have priced a product that’s either on the savings, on the deposit side, it’s a great rate, or on the loan side, it’s a great rate. And they have that part of the relationship. They don’t have the actual core of the relationship, and that core, because it’s so hard to move things around. I mean, most people, when they initially shut down an account, it goes something like this, some event has happened, an error, a fraud, a life of it, something is really ticked off the member or the customer, and they’re upset and going to close the account, and then two weeks later, they really realized trying to move all the stuff that this is really hard. Maybe it wasn’t that bad. They retained the account. So if you have that primary operating account and borrowing a life event or something, it’s really hard to acquire them or move them. And so back to your profitability. Once you have them that lifetime, retaining that and building a relationship around that as they go through the life with all the products and services they need, it is super profitable. And it’s like you’re trying to explain, it’s just you have a relationship with both parties are benefiting. And I think that that’s the key in you know, some people are like, Oh, you got to sell them for four products. I’m like, no, what is it? What is a 22 year old need with a savings account? At the moment, I know, in theory, they should have one, but are they going to really use a savings account that pays them 25 basis points? The answer is, they’re not going to, because they’re not that life stage. They’re not going to have savings for a little bit. So I don’t know if I’m answering your question. We get into again, I can go back and abstract is, you know, from a credit that’s at a member level, if you up to the top of the house, and this drives profitability, is you have to think about what kind of credit union balance sheet you want. So do I What kind of mix do I want? How loan to deposit ratio? Do I want? Do I want to mortgage first mortgages, seconds, equities? Do I want credit cards? What is it I want to compose this mix for that’s right for my organization, my community, and once you figure that out, then pricing, you can begin optimizing pricing amongst your members. But that bigger out, bigger optimization exercise has more is more of a balance sheet pricing execution piece which we can get. We could spend a whole session on that profitability. Back to what is you going to do with that member? Do you have their primary Do you have their primary checking account? Do you have their primary deposits or investments? Are they somewhere else? If they’re a business, do you have the treasury management? And most law credit unions aren’t into treasury management. You’re really going to need to be into it, because, unfortunately, most businesses need treasury management at some level, even the smallest ones, like merchant acquiring, right? If you take credit cards, that’s a treasury management product. You know, are your loans and lines price right? Or that, you know, did you give them a $5 million credit line when they really needed a one? And if you’re a business, do you, do you have their personal accounts? It’s really kind of those basic questions around all of that, that if you build out that relationship appropriately. And there’s no golden full formula. The only one, I’d say that it’s probably closest golden formula, get the operating account, get the operating account, get the operating account. And part of that is when you onboarded them, when they walked into your branch at your credit union and they say, I want to open a checking account. How do you guide them to that first 3060, excuse me, 3060, 90 days and make sure they can get everything over as easy as they can. Because if you can get them through that 90 days and get them activated and get a debit card that’s functioning and all their recurring payments are over there, you should have a member for at least 10 years. Mm. But a lot of folks will open that account, because this is that that, you know, we take orders instead of being proactive. Someone walked in, I filled out the paperwork, I opened the account, and everything’s great. The journey just started. And if you just leave it at that, there’s really a good, high likelihood that that accounts never going to go anymore, and you just lost an opportunity, because now you’re waiting on the next one to come in, so that activation, and it’s activating for what each member needs. And there’s guys, I will say this, there’s not, you know, if you have 440 100,000 members, there’s not 100,000 different solutions. There’s probably 25 or 30 different combos that probably work for vast majority of that, but it’s really figuring out how to make sure that. But back to profitability, get that operating account first and have those conversations to make sure you’re solving their needs, because if you do the next time they have a need, they’re just going to call you, because you made it easy to do that in there. What’s funny about the relationship is they’re not super price, price competitive. They’re people that are right. There’s people that will leave over five basis points, but most folks won’t spend you got about a 20 depends on the product and the size, but you got about a 10 to 1525, sometimes depending if they’re smaller basis point range on price. It’s not a differentiator. They’re not going to spend the time to go move something for 25 basis points, and if they have a good relationship, they don’t really want to. So I don’t know if I answered your question.
Sarah Cooke
Yes, you did. Now I always allow my guests final thoughts. If you have any more, we are welcome. You are welcome to share.
Mac Thompson
Alright, really focused on how to focus on understanding your members better. I think in general, most financial institutions, credit unions, included, have lost track of who their members are and how they can best support them and help them, especially credit unions, banks, you have shareholders and might, one can argue, I’d argue it’s both shareholders and customers for credit union, it’s all about the members, and become super member centric. And everything that you do, and when you talk technology products or projects, talk to people, process aspect as well, if you do on that, you’ll get a much better ROI. I think it’s huge. The fact they don’t do that does not help the ROI on those projects. So I appreciate Sarah, love you just kind of completely ramble here at times.
Sarah Cooke
No that’s been awesome talking to you, Mac. Appreciate your time today.
Mac Thompson
Cool. Well, Thank you.